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Thread: ANCIENT VOICES: Ditlihis Journey Into The Truth Of Ancient Treasure In The Southwest

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  1. #106

    May 2005
    Drake, Costa Rica
    377
    554 times
    mdog
    the hat fetish will get you every time

  2. #107
    us
    May 2013
    Phx AZ
    1,017
    1755 times
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    I...I...I’ve never looked at her in that way, before.
    Neither did she....

    But, THAT'S what I call a Real Beauty. Yeah.

    Muah-muah.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    All done tonite
    Last edited by Maverick1; May 15, 2019 at 10:16 PM.

  3. #108
    us
    Feb 2009
    Arkansas-River Valley-Ft. Smith
    Prism V
    416
    986 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Ditlihi,

    Keep it coming! Wish I could have took that hike
    with you and Dog. I can almost hear the whispers
    just by looking at the pictures and reading your posts.
    Glad you're back!
    -Weekender
    Mike

  4. #109
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,858
    3788 times
    Hi Ditlihi. Here's a post of mine from one of my threads that you might want to consider if you are ever looking for evidence of Old World exploration in the New World.

    I'm going to post some links that might give you a new way to look for evidence of ancient contact in North America. I don't know if anybody has ever looked for evidence from this angle before.

    Here are a couple of time periods to remember while reading the links.

    Old Copper Culture-4000-1000 BC
    Bronze Age Europe-3200-600 BC
    Bronze Age Near East 3300-1200 BC

    When the first Spanish returned from the New World in the mid 1490's, they brought more than Aztec silver and gold, they brought syphilis. Here are the links and remember the dates I posted above.

    https://scielo.conicyt.cl/scielo.php...62000000200009

    Non-Unitarian Theory
    The most important supporter of this theory is Hackett (1963, 1967) who suggests that the different clinical pictures are probably produced by treponemal mutations. At least four mutations have occurred in the last 10.000 years. He suggests that the first and oldest treponematosis mustbe pinta, extending from Africa and Asia to America 15.000 years ago. He suggests that mutation occurred around 10,000 B.C. and that it was due to a more humid and warm environment. He suggested that for the origin of yaws that extended through Africa, Southeastern Asia and probably Pacific islands and Australasia. He suggested that a second mutation from yaws to bejel or endemic syphilis took place 7.000 years B.C. It was favored by an arid and warm environment in Sahara and Northern Africa, Central and Southwestern Asia, and Central Australia. He suggested that another mutation appeared around 3.000 B.C., coinciding with the development of urban areas in Eastern Mediterranean regions and Southwestern Asia. He suggested that bejel (typical in children of rural regions) mutated to venereal syphilis. The fourth and last mutation took place in Europe in the final years of the fifteenth century and it was favored by environmental and social conditions of the cities presenting more serious repercussions.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956094/


    Hypotheses on the origin of syphilis
    The pre-columbian hypothesis. The advocates of this hypothesis claim that not only syphilis was widely spread in both Old and New World, but also the other treponemal diseases. In Europe, most of these conditions were mistaken for leprosy [3]. According to this hypothesis, pinta occurred in Afro-Asian zone by the year 15.000 BC, having an animal reservoir. Yaws appeared as a consequence of the mutations in pinta around 10.000 BC and spread allover the world, except for the American continent which was isolated. The endemic syphilis emerged from jaws by the selection of several treponemas, as a consequence of climate changes (the appearance of the arid climate) around 7000 BC. Around 3000 BC the sexually transmitted syphilis emerged from endemic syphilis in South-Western Asia, due to lower temperatures of the post-glacial era and spread to Europe and the rest of the world. Initially it manifested as a mild disease, eventually aggravated and grew in virulence, suffering from several mutations, at the end of the 15th century [2,3].

    https://archive.archaeology.org/9701.../syphilis.html

    Using these criteria, they examined 687 skeletons from archaeological sites in the United States and Ecuador ranging in age from 400 to 6,000 years. Populations to the south (New Mexico, Florida, and Ecuador) proved to have syphilis, while those to the north (Ohio, Illinois, and Virginia) had yaws. By contrast, examination of 1,000 Old World skeletons dated to before contact with the New World revealed no cases of syphilis. This suggests that syphilis was first present in the New World and was later brought to the Old World. Furthermore, the Rothschilds found that the earliest yaws cases in the New World collections were at least 6,000 years old, while the first syphilis cases were at least 800 years old and perhaps more than 1,600 years old. This suggests that syphilis may be a New World mutation of yaws, which has a worldwide distribution. The occurrence of the same mutation giving rise to syphilis independently in the New and Old worlds seems unlikely.












  5. #110
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,858
    3788 times
    It seems as if yaws didn't appear in the New World until at least 6000 years ago because of its isolation from the rest of the World. 6000 years ago was about the time that copper was being mined in the Lake Superior region. Maybe there was some connection between the introduction of yaws, in the New World, and the people who were mining the copper. Also, it seems that yaws mutated into syphilis 800-1600 years ago. Maybe the mutation took place during a migration from the cooler northern regions to the warmer regions of New Mexico and Florida. Whatever happened, the people who introduced yaws never went back to the Old World after the mutation, not from the southwest anyway.
    Last edited by mdog; May 16, 2019 at 12:32 AM.

  6. #111
    us
    Mar 2011
    N/W ARKANSAS
    FISHER
    2,361
    8204 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    Hi Ditlihi. Here's a post of mine from one of my threads that you might want to consider if you are ever looking for evidence of Old World exploration in the New World.

    I'm going to post some links that might give you a new way to look for evidence of ancient contact in North America. I don't know if anybody has ever looked for evidence from this angle before.

    Here are a couple of time periods to remember while reading the links.

    Old Copper Culture-4000-1000 BC
    Bronze Age Europe-3200-600 BC
    Bronze Age Near East 3300-1200 BC

    When the first Spanish returned from the New World in the mid 1490's, they brought more than Aztec silver and gold, they brought syphilis. Here are the links and remember the dates I posted above.

    https://scielo.conicyt.cl/scielo.php...62000000200009

    Non-Unitarian Theory
    The most important supporter of this theory is Hackett (1963, 1967) who suggests that the different clinical pictures are probably produced by treponemal mutations. At least four mutations have occurred in the last 10.000 years. He suggests that the first and oldest treponematosis mustbe pinta, extending from Africa and Asia to America 15.000 years ago. He suggests that mutation occurred around 10,000 B.C. and that it was due to a more humid and warm environment. He suggested that for the origin of yaws that extended through Africa, Southeastern Asia and probably Pacific islands and Australasia. He suggested that a second mutation from yaws to bejel or endemic syphilis took place 7.000 years B.C. It was favored by an arid and warm environment in Sahara and Northern Africa, Central and Southwestern Asia, and Central Australia. He suggested that another mutation appeared around 3.000 B.C., coinciding with the development of urban areas in Eastern Mediterranean regions and Southwestern Asia. He suggested that bejel (typical in children of rural regions) mutated to venereal syphilis. The fourth and last mutation took place in Europe in the final years of the fifteenth century and it was favored by environmental and social conditions of the cities presenting more serious repercussions.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956094/


    Hypotheses on the origin of syphilis
    The pre-columbian hypothesis. The advocates of this hypothesis claim that not only syphilis was widely spread in both Old and New World, but also the other treponemal diseases. In Europe, most of these conditions were mistaken for leprosy [3]. According to this hypothesis, pinta occurred in Afro-Asian zone by the year 15.000 BC, having an animal reservoir. Yaws appeared as a consequence of the mutations in pinta around 10.000 BC and spread allover the world, except for the American continent which was isolated. The endemic syphilis emerged from jaws by the selection of several treponemas, as a consequence of climate changes (the appearance of the arid climate) around 7000 BC. Around 3000 BC the sexually transmitted syphilis emerged from endemic syphilis in South-Western Asia, due to lower temperatures of the post-glacial era and spread to Europe and the rest of the world. Initially it manifested as a mild disease, eventually aggravated and grew in virulence, suffering from several mutations, at the end of the 15th century [2,3].

    https://archive.archaeology.org/9701.../syphilis.html

    Using these criteria, they examined 687 skeletons from archaeological sites in the United States and Ecuador ranging in age from 400 to 6,000 years. Populations to the south (New Mexico, Florida, and Ecuador) proved to have syphilis, while those to the north (Ohio, Illinois, and Virginia) had yaws. By contrast, examination of 1,000 Old World skeletons dated to before contact with the New World revealed no cases of syphilis. This suggests that syphilis was first present in the New World and was later brought to the Old World. Furthermore, the Rothschilds found that the earliest yaws cases in the New World collections were at least 6,000 years old, while the first syphilis cases were at least 800 years old and perhaps more than 1,600 years old. This suggests that syphilis may be a New World mutation of yaws, which has a worldwide distribution. The occurrence of the same mutation giving rise to syphilis independently in the New and Old worlds seems unlikely.












    MDOG, thatís a good chunk of viable history. A good read and explains a good deal of medical history.

    Whatís odd about it, is the urge that I had to clean my phone with an alcohol wipe after reading it 80{>~, before anyone could call me....

    Probably just the way Iím wired!

    #/;0{>~
    ....JESUS IS LORD.
    ...................THE BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD.
    .................................. HEAVEN IS MY REAL HOME.


    THAT'S JUST THE WAY I WAS RAISED TO SEE THE WORLD.

    REALLY, I'M NOT SHOUTING. I HAVE A VISUAL PERCEPTION PROBLEM, AND TYPING IN ALL CAPS HELPS ME TO PROOF READ WHAT I TYPE. IF I EVER NEED TO DRAW ATTENTION TO ANYTHING I'LL MAKE IT BOLD SO IT STANDS OUT. I MEAN NO HARM. #/;0)~

  7. #112

    Aug 2016
    964
    3659 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by weekender View Post
    Ditlihi,

    Keep it coming! Wish I could have took that hike
    with you and Dog. I can almost hear the whispers
    just by looking at the pictures and reading your posts.
    Glad you're back!
    -Weekender
    Mike


    Wow Mike, DTTH and I were just talking about you and wishing you were here with us yesterday! We have so much to cover at this site still, and another site yet to come. Not to mention some interesting places in the Cookes Range I have on my agenda. Dang it, homeboy, you need to get yourself out here, lol. (And bring some vittles, the rabbits out here are too dang skinny and I'm still pouting over missing out on a bumper crop of morels this year).

  8. #113

    Aug 2016
    964
    3659 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    It seems as if yaws didn't appear in the New World until at least 6000 years ago because of its isolation from the rest of the World. 6000 years ago was about the time that copper was being mined in the Lake Superior region. Maybe there was some connection between the introduction of yaws, in the New World, and the people who were mining the copper. Also, it seems that yaws mutated into syphilis 800-1600 years ago. Maybe the mutation took place during a migration from the cooler northern regions to the warmer regions of New Mexico and Florida. Whatever happened, the people who introduced yaws never went back to the Old World after the mutation, not from the southwest anyway.


    Now THAT is mighty interesting...Thank You! I would use the clapping smiley icon, but....well....

    I can see I am going to be doing some research into this tonight. If I might ask, what sent you down this particular avenue in your own research? It's an angle I have completely missed (and I follow your posts like a stalker, don't know how that happened), thank you for the links.
    Last edited by Ditlihi; May 16, 2019 at 12:17 PM.

  9. #114
    us
    Mar 2011
    N/W ARKANSAS
    FISHER
    2,361
    8204 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Ditlihi View Post
    Wow Mike, DTTH and I were just talking about you and wishing you were here with us yesterday! We have so much to cover at this site still, and another site yet to come. Not to mention some interesting places in the Cookes Range I have on my agenda. Dang it, homeboy, you need to get yourself out here, lol. (And bring some vittles, the rabbits out here are too dang skinny and I'm still pouting over missing out on a bumper crop of morels this year).

    Dit, if you can get Mike out there, put a tracking collar on him before you let him out of the truck!

    Then, all you have to do is, follow his trail and figure out what he stopped for!

    I have never seen anything like it.

    When he stops to think.... get your camera out and grab a shovel!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1558038605.461988.jpg 
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    He has a wealth of knowledge to go with the instincts.

    #/;0{>~
    ....JESUS IS LORD.
    ...................THE BIBLE IS GOD'S WORD.
    .................................. HEAVEN IS MY REAL HOME.


    THAT'S JUST THE WAY I WAS RAISED TO SEE THE WORLD.

    REALLY, I'M NOT SHOUTING. I HAVE A VISUAL PERCEPTION PROBLEM, AND TYPING IN ALL CAPS HELPS ME TO PROOF READ WHAT I TYPE. IF I EVER NEED TO DRAW ATTENTION TO ANYTHING I'LL MAKE IT BOLD SO IT STANDS OUT. I MEAN NO HARM. #/;0)~

  10. #115

    Aug 2016
    964
    3659 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by PROSPECTORMIKEL View Post
    Dit, if you can get Mike out there, put a tracking collar on him before you let him out of the truck!

    Then, all you have to do is, follow his trail and figure out what he stopped for!

    I have never seen anything like it.

    When he stops to think.... get your camera out and grab a shovel!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1558038605.461988.jpg 
Views:	10 
Size:	1.43 MB 
ID:	1713090

    He has a wealth of knowledge to go with the instincts.

    #/;0{>~


    Duly noted, Sir.

    That collar thing is a trait we share, must be our blood, lol. Not as much cover here though, he'll be easier to spot.

    Just try finding a bush to squat behind.

    Red Rover, Red Rover
    Weekender come over!


  11. #116

    Aug 2016
    964
    3659 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Taking a little break tomorrow, but hope to have more photos this weekend.

    Have some research to do at the local courthouse and library.

    Keep the info coming, I'll be baaack....

  12. #117
    us
    Jan 2011
    3,844
    3787 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Dit, lets try this site out. Please bring your geologist rock pick and lap top. Maybe you can figure out that Janus head That Double K and D, not sure what Era those symbols are from, or what they mean. You work the lap top. Ill throw that Pick around some.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1713196
    Ditlihi, Maverick1, mdog and 1 others like this.

  13. #118
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
    1,509
    6557 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    i AGREE dit, yOUAIN no SAINT.

  14. #119
    us
    Jan 2011
    3,844
    3787 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Check out how the Beak on the stone duck has that 3 shape, same has the stained duck on the rock face. Did someone in your thread say they have only seen stone ducks? Well here is one that is done in some type of staining paint.

  15. #120
    it
    Sep 2016
    Mexico
    1,509
    6557 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    hEY, JUST HOW DIO YOU GET SYPHILIS

 

 
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