Rock Engraved Treasure signs by the Peralta group,in the Superstitions

[djui5]

I never was able to find the Cactus with the stone markers pushed in them
I think it died or was cut down on purpose to hide the trail. Couldn't confirm that.
It may be there and I just missed it..expecailly I never expected to find it with the
stones placed in there..they had 'fallen' out when Storm found it after all.

The Cactus isn't there anymore It was taken down a LONG time ago. I was speaking of something else entirely though. If I ever see you up top Black Top Mesa I'll show you what I'm talking about.

They built the Monuments so that there would be NO doubt for the Kings recovery crew to
see these monuments, and the reason that I think that MOST of the caches were
taken because I think they were there early in the mid 1550-1650..then again back
near the Expolsion of 1767, because it was the perfect hiding place, and treasures
brought from other areas, where taken there and hidden , before the most of them
fled to Russia or where ever..

That's entirely possible, you never know

 

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[lamar]

Dear bob631;
Your statement:

"The top secret "code book" is the HOLY BIBLE. Some people have just never taken the time to read it, and must lack the "imagination" to view it from a different persons perspective."

would be logical and make sense EXCEPT for one salient point my friend. The official Roman Catholic Bible happens to be written in LATIN! Therefore, in order for a person to be able to use the Holy Bible as a *codebook*, first one must have a intimate knowledge of Latin. Before the King James Bible was began in 1604 and first published in England in1611, the official Bible of Christianity was the Latin Vulgate Bible.

And since the Jesuits happen to be both Roman Catholic AND academic scholars, it would stand to reason that their version of the Holy Bible would be the Vulgate Latin Bible and not the King James version, which is filled with inconsistencies and inaccuracies, by the way.

Since Latin is such a different language than English, it is impossible to translate anything from Latin to English word for word, except for very short sentences. Therefore, it must be taken into account that in order to accurately translate from Latin to English, one must be intimately familiar with the translation of thoughts and/or ideas rather than merely translating a work word for word.

Therefore I would surmise that the Holy Bible is NOT a source for a secret code book as it would be impossible to use It as a source for coded text.
Your friend;
LAMAR

*EDIT* To complicate matters even further, among Roman Catholic scholars there has been numerous disagreements as to WHICH Latin Bible is to be used as the standardized Roman Catholic Bible, the St. Jerome Vulgate version (382-425AD), or the classical Vetus Latina version, which was in widespread use throughout Christianity before the Council of Trent(began in 1545 and ended in 1563).

To sum up, using the Holy Bible as a *secret source code* would seem like a simple proposition until one takes into account ALL of the variables which can be employed in such an undertaking, thus complicating the matter and rendering such an undertaking as impractical, if not impossible.

 

[gollum]

Lamar,

Just because most of us can't use the Vulgate Latin Bible as a detailed Code Book, does not necessarily mean the Jesuits did not.

It can still be used for many Spanish Monuments as well. In another post, someone posted a picture of what many thought to be a horse with it's ears flattened. I saw a dragon. Looking through the King James for dragon references, I found a couple that referred to the same thing:

Isaiah 43 20: The beast of the field shall honor me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

That tells me that the monument leads to a idden spring/well.

Best-Mike

 

[lamar]

Dear gollum;
Yes, this is what YOUR Bible states, however please be advised that it is NOT what is written in the Latin Vulgate bible.
Your interpretation:
"The beast of the field shall honor me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen."

And now from the Latin Vulgate Bible, Isaias 40-23:
"glorificabit me bestia agri dracones et strutiones quia dedi in deserto aquas flumina in invio ut darem potum populo meo electo meo"

A direct English translation of Latin into English:
"The beast of the field shall glorify me, the dragons and the ostriches: because I have given waters in the wilderness,(no AND in Latin) rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, to my chosen. "

Thank you for that example of why we should never attempt to translate the Bible from Vulgate Latin into another language, such as English, as in doing so we unintentionally (or perhaps intentionslly) change the entire context of the work in question.

As an aside, I would like to ask you to bear in mind "Ut oro me est futile".
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear dsty;
On the contrary my friend, this is the place to ask all sorts of questions. And to receive all sorts of different, and interesting answers as well.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear SWR;
I was merely atempting to aid some of our forum members about the differences in what they think may have been written and what has actually been written.

As an aside, even the Douay-Rheims Bible, which is still considered by many traditional Roman Catholics to be the official Bibical translation from Latin to English, is fraught with inaccuracies and inconsistencies, therefore any one of the Latin text Bibles are still in use by the ultra-conserative Roman Catholic societies. These works include the Latin Vulgate Bible series to include the Heva, Hava and Eva editions, the Vestus Latina version, the Clementine Vulgate, and most recently the Nova Vulgate, which has been in general usage since 1979.

And now, knowing that there are many different Bibles in existence, it would therefore be, to reiterate once more, highly impractical, if not impossible to use a *Bible* as a source for word codes.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear gollum;
I've just had a horrifying thought, my friend. Suppose you were traisping merrily along and happened to spy a caricature of an ostrich. Immediately you whip out your trusty code book and thumbing through it feverishly you search for a reference for *ostrich*. Lo and behold! You find nothing contained within, because your version of the Bible has no references to an ostrich, however if you had used the Official Latin Vulgate Treasure Seekers Official Source Code Directory and Handbook, then your day may very well have been saved.

I would suggest that you immediately set aside The king James, New Jerusalem, Living Bible or whatever Bible you happen to be utilizing and grab a copy of the Latin Vulgate Bible immediately! I think your chances of success may rise dramatically, and if not, then at the very worst you will have gotten a great primer in the Latin language. After all my friend, you can not even hope to be a part of a major conspiracy if you don't have at least a working knowledge of Latin.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Mr.Jody]

......

 

[gollum]

Bob,

Maybe you could show us some of your finds that your nebulous rock formations have led to? Since you seem to hold the rest of us in such disregard.

Although I may disagree with some of what Lamar believes, I will tell you that when it comes to Jesuit History, he does have a lot of knowledge. He also may be a little blinded by devotion, but has a great basic knowledge.

Lamar,

Here is a quote from a long time Jesuit regarding the letter describing how the Jesuits circumvented the regulations about gambling/playing cards:

The idea of Jesuit padres standing behind the guys who actually played the cards is perfectly "Jesuitical" and not at all unlikely (we did tend to have our ways of circumventing the rules).

Best-Mike

 

[Springfield]

Dear gollum;
Yes, this is what YOUR Bible states, however please be advised that it is NOT what is written in the Latin Vulgate bible. ....

And what of the original documents, which, as I recall, were written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek? Lots of potential language problems translating into Latin too, let alone English.

By the way, your earlier admonition is falling on deaf ears - I simply don't buy the premise.

 

[gollum]

Gee, Where to start,

I KNOW! Bob,

Guess what. If it walks like your imagination, sounds like a voice in your head, and nobody else can see it, what does that tell you?

My finds (for some part here) are pretty well documented. I could post pics of nebulous cracks in rocks, but choose to show what REAL signs look like. I'm sorry if my honest opinion of what you found pees on your Wheaties. I don't personally care who you are, but if you post something worthwhile, I'll say so, and if I think it's bunk, I'll say that as well. None of my monuments require any near lethal doses of LSD to see!

Just a few as a reminder of what authentic monuments look like.

OH! .....and a couple of a small cache found

Springfield,

The older versions aren't really necessary. You just have to try and figure which version they used, and in this case, Lamar is likely correct with the Latin Vulgate. The King James will work for most because while some detail may be changed, the basic ideas are the same. Lamar seems to think that I am talking about some great conspiracy here, but it is a well known fact that both the Spanish and Mexicans were avid users of Bible Verse when making their maps to hidden wealth. It only stands to reason that if the Jesuits wanted to conceal the location of something valuable, they too would hide it in something that every Jesuit would understand.

Mike

 

[lamar]

Dear group;
And now for my rebuttals:

"Lamar is no expert he's a student, you can really tell by the way his dissertations contain no substance, quote no references, and are purely misguided, have no facts to back them up, and are strictly based on his own opinion and some strange want to champion a cause that needs no champion."

Yes, it's completely true that I am a student and I've found it to be a lifelong pursuit, however the fact remains that EVERYTHING I have written thus far is factual in nature and intention and should be so self-evident that no references need be required. I can not help even it if someone is slovenly in nature and haphazard in their research, and if a person is unwilling to devote the miniscule amount of time necessary to prove to themselves that what I have written are the facts, then I refuse to aid these people further, as I can not abide by lazy people.

To discover that there has never been a Jesuit Pope or Cardinal takes about 2 minutes of dilligent research and everything else which I have written takes perhaps 10 minutes time. If someone is unwilling to devote 10 minutes to prove for themselves what I have written is indeed fact, then that person deserves nothing more from me.

I am also not championing a cause, however I am attempting to refute some allegations from certain people regarding certain groups of innocents. It is everyones' duty to protect the innocents from slander and I am merely doing my part.

And now:
"And what of the original documents, which, as I recall, were written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek? Lots of potential language problems translating into Latin too, let alone English."

Yes, this is an entirely true statement, as practially all of the orignal documents which comprise the Holy Bible were indeed originally penned in Hebrew, Aramic and Greek, however one must always remember this one simple fact. When the Holy Bible was first translated into Latin, Hebrew, Aramic and Greek, these were still considered to be living languages and therefore it was a very simple task to translate words, sentences, paragraphs, thoughts, ideas and parables from these languages into the Latin used during the time in question.

The original Latin translations were complied within two centuries after the death of Jesus Christ, so it may safely be assumed that these interpretations very closely resemble the original texts in both nature and context. All of these translations were written in Classical Latin instead of the more modern Vulgate Latin.

That a large part of the new Testament was written in Latin was a great aid to the early intrepretors of the day. Practically all of the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and as such, translating that was a rather simple and straight forward affair.

The Greek Septuagint (Holy Bible) was also written in the first thru third centuries AD, mostly from the writings in the Hebrew Bible.

Biblical Aramic was also used extensively, however most of the original works have not survived and thus later Latin translations are the only existing copies, and they were utilized heavily in several portions of the modern Bible.

So, during the writing and translating of the Holy Bible into Latin, only one to two centuries had elapsed, making the chore much easier, and taking into consideration that the languages were similiar in nature aided the translators a great deal.

This can not be said with the English translation of the Holy Bible as some 16 centuries had passed between the writing of the Holy Bible in latin until it was translated into English by the academics of King James. By the time the scholars commissioned by King James had started their work, the Holy Bible had been re-written some ELEVEN TIMES or more by various Roman Catholic scholars!

So, not only was the King James Bible inaccurate because of either partial loss of meaning, or complete loss of meaning of the texts whilst translating the work from Latin into English, it also suffers from all of the inaccuracies which have been heaped upon it from the various revisions by earlier Roman Catholic scholars.

Once again, what I have written is not based on suppositions, what I have written is firmly based in factual history and these same facts are widely available and quite easily uncovered by anyone who is willing to put forth a modicum of effort and ambition. Perhaps I have yet to discover what my true purpose on Earth is, however I feel that it is NOT to spoonfeed others that which they can do for themselves.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[gollum]

Well Bob,

Everyone that knows me, knows I don't lie. All my pics are my own, and those three coins are (like I stated since you can't read) are just part of a small cache.

If you think any different, I will bet you $1,000 right now that you can't find ANY picture that I have posted that is not my own (unless I have said so and gave credit to the original finder). Now! Put up or shut up! I don't care how extensive your library may be, you will not find ONE!

My, how foolish you look Bobbie.

Here are more on another thread for you. why not cancel your large whaah burger and french cries, and find something REAL!

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,149002.200.html

Now,

I was originally going to post this as a temper to my previous post. See, we can't be there, and see what you see. Your pictures might not include all the rocks necessary to understand, or may have been taken at the wrong time of day. It's all about C-O-N-T-E-X-T. We don't see everything you see, so what we may see doesn't look like anything special. I will always give someone that benefit.

But................if you post something, and ask what we think....I for one will give you an honest opinion. If it's not what you want to hear then.....too bad.....so sad.

Mike

 

[lamar]

Dear Rangler;
You wrote:
"Proverbs, Chapter 8
"seek knowledge rather than silver - understanding rather than gold"

As usual, this is incorrect. This is what is written in the Latin Vulgate Bible, my friend.

Proverbs 8:10
"accipite disciplinam meam et non pecuniam doctrinam magis quam aurum eligite"

And the English translation of this:
"Accept my instruction and not reconpense(money): choose (to have) knowledge rather than gold."

And that is a direct translation from the Latin Vulgate Bible, my often times confused friend. Strictly as an aside, even though you've asked that I leave the presence of this topic, in truth I simply can not do this, not because I am unwilling to do so, but because if I do I fear that the jackals and ravens shall pick your bones clean in a short span. It might therefore behoove you to not speak ill of me my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[rangler]

"Proverbs, Chapter 8
"seek knowledge rather than silver - understanding rather than gold"

As usual, this is incorrect. This is what is written in the Latin Vulgate Bible, my friend.

Proverbs 8:10
"accipite disciplinam meam et non pecuniam doctrinam magis quam aurum eligite"

And the English translation of this:
"Accept my instruction and not reconpense(money): choose (to have) knowledge rather than gold."

Sir your protestations have left you living on a razor edge, trying to split hairs so thin, it is ridiculous indeed
You translation into English from the Latin - only shows the rough edges - when you try to do that..
no Scholar, no Scribe would have left the rude and crude translation to stand in its rough shape, that would
have inspired NO one..to have given the poets and inspirational wordsmithing, it would have came out exactly
as it was written in the King James version..

Remember this was carved on a rock, in the Supers as an admonition ...as a warning..to remember your morals
your correct teachings, seek knowledge..by accepting my instruction....seek understanding rather than gold..

it all meshes perfectly , the meanings is crystal clear..the crudeness of Latin is shown in true light..the poetic license
taken by King James scribes, was well intended and well executed..That is why the Jesuits switched to the English
version as soon as it was available..they used the English Alphabet so it is logical that they would have preferred the
English Version of the King James version..still all in all,,just more filibustering and more waste of time and resources
more hijacking of the threads..AGAIN your own post PLEASE
Dont worry about my bones being picked, I am a big boy and can hold my own..after all you cant stop a man
who is right and keeps on coming. I take the moral high ground and hold it..
I will overcome, adapt & persevere
auferiously
rangler


P15 "The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of a fool feeds on folly."

 

[lamar]

Dear bob631;
My credentials My old friend, have I not proven myself to you already? Is not every word typed by my hand the truth? Are not my proclamations indeed historical facts? Therefore, in my very humble opinion, these are my credentials and I feel that I have provided you with more than ample proof of my abilities and knowledge and I feel that my credentials speak for themselves, my friend.

Of course, it's not my fault that you do not seem to possess even a rudimentary knowledge of the history of the Roman Catholic church, of Latin, the colonization and settlement of the New World, or of history in general. That you can not seem to be able to grasp even the simpliest of concepts does not in any way tarnish a single word of what I have written, for what I have written are facts and truths, nothing more and nothing less, and I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves.

That I have taken time out of my busy schedule to refute the rumors that the Society of Jesus was in any way involved in a massive conspiracy should be credentials enough for you, my doubting friend. You should be appreciative of my labors and therefore it is from my point of view that you remain quiet and still and be ever vigilant until you have learned enough to form your own opinions.
Your friend:
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear rangler;
To provide inspiration at the cost of accuracy is wrong, my friend. What is written, is written. It can be *enhanced* by whomever wishes to do so, but it still does not change the fact that what has been written, was written. The Holy Bible requires no *enhancements* by the scholars and scribes of King James or anyone else, for what has been written, was written.

"That is why the Jesuits switched to the English
version as soon as it was available..they used the English Alphabet so it is logical that they would have preferred the
English Version of the King James version"

This of course is a complete fabrication. The Jesuits have never considered the King James Bible to be anything more than what it is, a Protestant intrepretation of the word of God. If you might recall, the Jesuits were originally charged with stopping the spread of Protestantism from their earliest inception onwards. Some Jesuits have recently accepted the Douay-Rheims Bible to be a comprehensive work, however the vast majority still uses the Nova Vulgate Bible as their source of spiritual inspiration.

Also, the alphabet used in modern English happens to be the classic Latin alphabet, my friend. The only addition to the Latin Alphabet is the inclusion of miniscule letters, as Latin is written in all capitol letters, therefore the miniscule form was not needed and did not exist. Other additions to the Latin alphabet are the letters "J", "U" and "W" which did not exist in the Latin language and it was only until the Middle Ages that these three letters were included in the Latin alphabet to more closely approximate the sounds found in the Germanic languages group.

Actually, I feel that you NEED me to continue posting on this topic and others, if for no other reason than to cheerfully correct your vast array of mistakes, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[lamar]

Dear bob631;
I have yet to threaten you or anyone else, either in public or private, my friend, and I have no intention of doing so in the future. My fondest desire is to correct a few historical inaccuracies and perhaps enlighten you a bit in the process.

I have no idea whether you are a Roman Catholic or not as this does not concern me, however you may rest assured that I am a Roman Catholic and I am secure in my faith.

I have no idea what a "third step illuminati" is, or what the "protocols of elders of zion" are and in truth I have no desire to learn more on this subject, as life is far too short for me to embark on a fools' errand, and I simply do not have the time nor the inclination to pursue rubbish such as this.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[gollum]

Well Mike I refuse to stoop to your level of pettiness Wink I'll tell you what, you and your friends just keep up the good work, spreading disinformation and half truths...keep your secrets no one really needs them, for twenty bucks a year I could slap up a web site, whoop de do.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm not a member of your little club and don't want to be, I never have or ever will need any help from any of you, keep your decoder ring and secret handshake and your attitude that you are all the know all end all of treasure hunting.

As far as the discredit thing that you seem to be trying to do to me , just go to old mike here's website and read a little bit about how proud he is that he will never divulge the secret of where the final signs of the treasure will be found, then go to a legitimate archeological website and get factual information. Grin

HAHAHA,

My level of pettiness? Aren't YOU the one who accused me of plagiarism (that's where you steal someone else's words or pictures)? Let's see who's petty?

Looks like any other ordinary pile of rocks there mike, give us a call when you find something significant Wink

HMMMMMM. After looking at what I posted, someone seems a little petty here (and it's not meeeee).

three coins is hardly a cache Grin

Not really petty, just a lack of reading skills.

Pretty much anyone can find pictures of stuff and post them here, show us something YOU'VE found Roll Eyes

NOW WE HAVE HEAVY PETTY! Also slander. I only asked you to show me ANYWHERE that I have posted something that wasn't mine?? I even offered you a thousand dollars if you could. Like I stated previously: "PUT UP OR SHUT UP!" See how petty and foolish you look? Just have another mayonnaise sandwich. It will be all right. How's that waah burger and french cries?

Mike

 

[lamar]

Dear bob631;
When armed with the facts in a historical debate, one is allowed to feel a bit smug, my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR