Spikes American Digger with Ric Savage Good or Bad?

[N.J.THer]

Against my better "Past" Judgement, I recorded & just watched last nights episode.
he digs a Flat beer can & Whips it like a Frisbee.

Now I'm P.O'd all over again ! Why did I Bother

I heard about that from my wife...lol. I was watching the Devils/Rangers game (Go Devils) and my wife was on the other side of the room watching American Diggers. She does not detect and even she was pissed that he just tossed the can. She knows that I always carry out any trash. She commented on how bad the show is but enjoys seeing what they find even if it is planted. I have to get her on T-Net so she can see real dug artifacts.

Apparently in the coming attactions for next week they get arrested...I smell more staged drama coming.

NJ

 

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[jeff of pa]

Ric really strained to show how emotional he was about finding the rare planted slave tag that he spied from several feet away. .

"Strained" is good word. "Overacted" is another.
Especially since it was probably Rented from the shop he claimed to have sold it to.

on the other hand, The woman who said "see I told you so"
& the Husband rolling his eyes, was Priceless.

My guess they were both in on the scam.

 

[N.J.THer]

I can't stand the sound of him saying Boom Baby! He wouldn't never come back on my property after yelling like that and bringing in the heavy equipment.
Did anyone see that other detecting show that only aired about 2 shows? It had a couple of guys and they called everything juice that they found. It was better than Rick's show but it was still crazy. One show had the one who found the least amount dressing up in a dress and riding a bike into a freezing a** lake. Anyway, as far as detecting, it was alright.

If I had to pick my poison I would watch that Diggers over American Diggers but the one show that I feel did a great job recently was Lucky Muckers. If you have not seen it try to find it on your on-demand or a rebroadcast.

NJ

 

[jeff of pa]

what's your thought on the guy greeting them with the Gun ?

First off the TV crew was there, He couldn't have been Scared savage was a thief

Are people that Backward (granny Clampet types) down there they grab a shotgun to greet everyone who rolls up to their house ?
My guess that was scripted also.
the woman sounded like a typical archie, or wanna be "what the world needs now is healing" Hippy type.
& Completely lost on reality considering who actually are the biggest Buyers of slavery items.

Convinced me the turn downs are all scripted & paid also.

 

[Monty]

I have seen this network ruin some really good reality ideas and this is no exception. Monty

 

[Patfoundit]

I would enjoy a show like this if it was done with taste and the finds went somewhere to be shared with everyone(museums) The one and only thing he does do that I would encourage everyone to do is research the area in which we's going to search. That makes the hobby much more enjoyable and productive. As I said before, I'm an avid sportsman and would not go out on a strange body of water or a plot of land and start fishing or hunting just anywhere. Same goes with metal detecting, know the history of the area and where certain hot spots are. Unfortunately this clown is as bad as any looter. He has no class, his sales pitch is horrible I don't know for sure but I wonder how much stuff his crew finds that doesn't get on the show and reported back to the land owner. I do hope if National Geographic does come out with a show that it is done right and sheds a positive light on the hobby.

 

[sqzdog]

NatGeo is going to take another swing at a detecting show...probably before the end of the year which I think everyone will be happy with. We will see...

NJ

I hope to God they get new hosts and a new script. That show was awful, but at least it wasn't as bad as Rick Savage's show.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Unfortunately this clown is as bad as any looter. He has no class, his sales pitch is horrible I don't know for sure but I wonder how much stuff his crew finds that doesn't get on the show and reported back to the land owner.

You seem to be under the impression that this show is real. It's not. Everything is scripted, the "finds" are planted, and it is completely made up.

 

[Archae33]

NJ,

You pretty much summed up my feelings about it all. I got my MA in England, and was very impressed with the relationship over there. I also love how the English upload info on tons of individual finds online, accessible to all. I think America will eventually get there, however there will always be people going out to loot sites in the dead of night... especially as long as there are buyers out there willing to pay for the looted artifacts.

 

[Archae33]

Imagine that!

PS- I got you on here, so let me ask you-

Since it seems "we" usually don't agree with one another when it comes to digging relics and the methods used in the extrication of said objects, at what point does a "site" become of archaeological interest as it pertains to detectorists and archaeologists being at odds over it? Or does your community just have a general dislike for anyone swinging a detector or digging in the ground besides "you"? Honest question.

I wrote a lovely, semi-long reply and when I hit send the internet ate it all! That probably works out best for you though, because now I'm going to paraphrase it and save you time, I'm sure, haha:

Unfortunately when we hear 'treasure hunter' or 'metal detectorist,' we immediately think of sites we know of that have been looted, and we have a generally negative reaction to the very idea of such individuals. Having spent time in England, I'm aware the relationship could be better, and I maintain hope that it will improve. And coming from a small, very historic (and very prehistoric) town, I'm well aware of or acquainted with several local treasure hunters, and I know the different types and their motivations. Most are pretty good guys.

As NJ mentions below, archaeologists are primarily more accepting of treasure hunters that work alongside us to help uncover and preserve history. Any time a single person just pockets an artifact without recording it's exact location or depth in the ground, it loses some informational value. If they take it home and put it in a box with other artifacts from other sites, it loses all or almost all of its informational value. Archaeologists are constantly aware that when we excavate a site, we are destroying it. We can't put it back, and the next generation of archaeologists can't excavate it a second time. We also realize that we could be as careful and precise as currently possible, and we're still going to miss and destroy information. For instance, we use a 1/4" screen (generally) to catch artifacts. But I've worked with microartifacts (those smaller than 1/4"), so I've seen what we usually leave behind. It's amazing what a few thousand artifacts only 1 to 2 mm in size can tell you that the larger artifacts cannot.

A site becomes more significant if it (1) is the location of a significant event(s)/has the potential to generate high public interest, and/or (2) if it is an undisturbed, relatively rare example of a type of site from any point in our history. We might cringe if we hear of looters taking projectile points from plowed fields, but we fume to hear of detectorists digging through several inches of soil to get at a hit in the yard of a pioneer homestead, only to ignore the depth and specific location of whatever prize they've gotten (not to mention not reporting it to a historian or archaeologist), and discarding any glass, nails, or ceramics sherds they go through as unimportant. Of course, our disdain skyrockets when we learn they've done it just to make a profit, and we purely seethe when it's done illegally.

Yep... that was the condensed version.

 

[Archae33]

I've worked with archeologists on a historic battle site, and it was a good relationship for the most part. We provided the work, and them the expertise.

I say for the most part because the modest (by value or 'flash') artifacts ended up in a box a hundred miles from the site, never to be seen. I'd like the local historical museum to get them for a display; at least people can see them.

It's nice to see you post on a site like this; I hope you can see that the majority of folks here are ethical, and we agree that Diggers is a disaster for our cultural heritage and hobby. We need to unite on this one.

That's awesome that you've worked with archaeologists before. Hopefully we'll see more and more partnerships like that in the future.

I know what you mean about the artifacts being sent off. I'm volunteering in my home county now, and working to find somewhere in this county to curate the artifacts I find. I don't even want them going two counties away. I want them to stay here.

As far as these looter shows go... Maybe they'll be just what we need to come together on something?

 

[Hot zone]

If an amateur records the position of an artifact in a field that has been repeated turned over with a plow, what has been learned? An Indian made it and it was found. Who owns the past? The college educated? It makes me cringe when I see Archie's Disrespecting graves and tombs. The stuff someone had buried with them had religious significance. The arrow that was shot at a buffalo and ended up in a plowed field is no more significant a find than another.

 

[Keppy]

I would enjoy a show like this if it was done with taste and the finds went somewhere to be shared with everyone(museums) The one and only thing he does do that I would encourage everyone to do is research the area in which we's going to search. That makes the hobby much more enjoyable and productive. As I said before, I'm an avid sportsman and would not go out on a strange body of water or a plot of land and start fishing or hunting just anywhere. Same goes with metal detecting, know the history of the area and where certain hot spots are. Unfortunately this clown is as bad as any looter. He has no class, his sales pitch is horrible I don't know for sure but I wonder how much stuff his crew finds that doesn't get on the show and reported back to the land owner. I do hope if National Geographic does come out with a show that it is done right and sheds a positive light on the hobby.

I will say i like the tv shows .."Diggers & American diggers " .......... You said they have no taste or class in the show.... It seems fine to me ............. They have enought taste & class for me .....They have as much class & taste as most on here...... And i would guess that they on both shows .......Would not look down there noses at others like some here do........... Or make fun of what some look like .............. It seems like a lot here like to make fun of others looks ....... To me that shows no class or taste............

 

[Keppy]

You seem to be under the impression that this show is real. It's not. Everything is scripted, the "finds" are planted, and it is completely made up.

Jason ... Then you know like i do and some others it is a tv show for entertainment...... No one would watch if all they found is tin cans and pull tabs..........

 

[diggummup]

I wrote a lovely, semi-long reply and when I hit send the internet ate it all! That probably works out best for you though, because now I'm going to paraphrase it and save you time, I'm sure, haha:

Unfortunately when we hear 'treasure hunter' or 'metal detectorist,' we immediately think of sites we know of that have been looted, and we have a generally negative reaction to the very idea of such individuals. Having spent time in England, I'm aware the relationship could be better, and I maintain hope that it will improve. And coming from a small, very historic (and very prehistoric) town, I'm well aware of or acquainted with several local treasure hunters, and I know the different types and their motivations. Most are pretty good guys.

As NJ mentions below, archaeologists are primarily more accepting of treasure hunters that work alongside us to help uncover and preserve history. Any time a single person just pockets an artifact without recording it's exact location or depth in the ground, it loses some informational value. If they take it home and put it in a box with other artifacts from other sites, it loses all or almost all of its informational value. Archaeologists are constantly aware that when we excavate a site, we are destroying it. We can't put it back, and the next generation of archaeologists can't excavate it a second time. We also realize that we could be as careful and precise as currently possible, and we're still going to miss and destroy information. For instance, we use a 1/4" screen (generally) to catch artifacts. But I've worked with microartifacts (those smaller than 1/4"), so I've seen what we usually leave behind. It's amazing what a few thousand artifacts only 1 to 2 mm in size can tell you that the larger artifacts cannot.

A site becomes more significant if it (1) is the location of a significant event(s)/has the potential to generate high public interest, and/or (2) if it is an undisturbed, relatively rare example of a type of site from any point in our history. We might cringe if we hear of looters taking projectile points from plowed fields, but we fume to hear of detectorists digging through several inches of soil to get at a hit in the yard of a pioneer homestead, only to ignore the depth and specific location of whatever prize they've gotten (not to mention not reporting it to a historian or archaeologist), and discarding any glass, nails, or ceramics sherds they go through as unimportant. Of course, our disdain skyrockets when we learn they've done it just to make a profit, and we purely seethe when it's done illegally.

Yep... that was the condensed version.

My only argument would be that this entire country for the most part is an archaeological dig site in the terms you have outlined above, especially the areas where CW battles and Indian Wars battles took place. In order to be properly recorded every farmer, farm laborer, kid at the beach digging a hole, scuba diver, mom and pop roto tilling for a garden, metal detectorist, hiker, camper etc., would have to have formal training if the instance ever arises that they may innocently happen upon a relic of the past while doing their normal everyday activities.

I have found several points as well as other historical objects in many different fields in multiple counties in Ky. back when I was in my 20's as I was innocently laboring (cutting. loading tobacco) in the fields. I have found a historical object or 2 on a beach and old homestead while metal detecting, I know of plenty of older trash pits on old homesteads up north that date back several hundred years. Haven't dug them yet but they are a plenty and not unique.

I just don't think that it is a viable argument to say that finding a point in a tobacco field while cutting tobacco deems further investigation. A lone artifact isn't historically significant (imho). Now I do know a spot where the ground was littered with broken points by the dozens, it's now a Walmart that backs a creek. That spot would be worthy of a dig possibly, but I believe the was dirt that was removed in order to build the store. No telling what story that may have told. Gotta love progress. Besides the fact that their aren't enough archae's to work all "possible" sites, their isn't enough funding to research and dig every possible site either. It's a sad but true fact. I love history too and there are so many sites already that have been put off limits by the Feds or state/local because of the historical significance, you guys would be busy for 100 years if you just dug those. The entire world itself is a historical site.

 

[diggummup]

Jason ... Then you know like i do and some others it is a tv show for entertainment...... No one would watch if all they found is tin cans and pull tabs..........

Duh really, we know that it's for entertainment purposes only and everything is a "re-enactment" (and then some). However there are plenty of ignorant ass people out there that don't. If you think the majority of the potato chip eating American Idol watching sheeple in this country has a lick of common sense then you are sadly mistaken. I'm a realist, I don't wear rose colored glasses.

 

[jeff of pa]

I have a problem with those in this thread using the word Looters when talking about Us,
or the Rastler & his crew.

"Looters" My description : those who Steal from an archeological site, or from a site
that is Nationally known as Protected.
SIGNS UP !!!!!!

PLEASE Do not call someone a Looter for doing research or happening upon a Historical site that the Archeologists,
nore anyone else gave a crap to put "Dibbs on" "officially" or even knew about beforehand !

If while detecting, or researching I come across something that will turn History as we know
it upside down, I don't want be be told I looted it, just because some archie got jealous,
or afraid for their reputation & job

 

[N.J.THer]

My only argument would be that this entire country for the most part is an archaeological dig site in the terms you have outlined above, especially the areas where CW battles and Indian Wars battles took place. In order to be properly recorded every farmer, farm laborer, kid at the beach digging a hole, scuba diver, mom and pop roto tilling for a garden, metal detectorist, hiker, camper etc., would have to have formal training if the instance ever arises that they may innocently happen upon a relic of the past while doing their normal everyday activities.

I have found several points as well as other historical objects in many different fields in multiple counties in Ky. back when I was in my 20's as I was innocently laboring (cutting. loading tobacco) in the fields. I have found a historical object or 2 on a beach and old homestead while metal detecting, I know of plenty of older trash pits on old homesteads up north that date back several hundred years. Haven't dug them yet but they are a plenty and not unique.

I just don't think that it is a viable argument to say that finding a point in a tobacco field while cutting tobacco deems further investigation. A lone artifact isn't historically significant (imho). Now I do know a spot where the ground was littered with broken points by the dozens, it's now a Walmart that backs a creek. That spot would be worthy of a dig possibly, but I believe the was dirt that was removed in order to build the store. No telling what story that may have told. Gotta love progress. Besides the fact that their aren't enough archae's to work all "possible" sites, their isn't enough funding to research and dig every possible site either. It's a sad but true fact. I love history too and there are so many sites already that have been put off limits by the Feds or state/local because of the historical significance, you guys would be busy for 100 years if you just dug those. The entire world itself is a historical site.

Could the whole country be considered an archaeological site...yes...but that is even more accurate when describing Europe. I don't think any training would be needed to have people report finds. It would increase everyones knowledge by creating an accessible database of historical finds. It would also help discover significant sites that may justify further study or an official dig. On the database you would not put down exact locations just state and maybe counties of the discovery.

As far as solo artifacts such as a point. In most case you are absolutely correct and it would not add to any historical knowledge. But what if it was a unique point or style or that type of point has never been found in that area before or it is not native to the area. That information could add to tribe migration patterns or maybe the native economy and how items were traded between tribes. So a solo item could add to a much bigger picture even if it was not from an active site.

When a site is plowed and the artifacts are disturbed then the actual depth and exact location don't matter. On a battlefield if you find one musketball there is usually no story it tells. But now find many musketballs, grapeshot, buttons, cannonballs, etc and plot it all on a map. Now you have artilary lines, camp sites, troop locations and movements. Many old maps with troop locations were drawn after the battles and in some case long after the battles so they are not always extremely accurate. Through metal detecting I've seen the location of orchards where British troops took cover that are now empty farm fields rediscovered. National battlefields where the artilary line was believe to be proven wrong by metal detecting finds. In camps and forts the cabin, kitchen and blacksmith locations discovered. Even the discover of long gone fence lines on old farm sites the troops fought across. All done by detectorists working with archaeologists.

On a side note, I completely agree with Jeff and his looter comment except if your research leads to private property and you don't get the proper permission. With Keppy, it is his right to like the show but I just don't share his tastes. I have no problem with the look of any of the people on either show. I have a problem with their actions and the image they portray. In the long and short run I think it will hurt the hobby and only do more damage the longer they are on TV.

Happy hunting everyone

NJ

 

[flakefinder]

Bad, People watch and think all they have to do is buy a Detector and they will make all kinds of money. Had a guy call me the other day I had been detecting his place for a while, he asked if I was over there that day I said no, he told me that someone was detecting his place why he was at work. The lady next door told him she had seen a guy digging and detecting. Shows like this is going to hurt all of us and make it harder to find places to detect.

 

[Gunrunner61]

The show is a bunch of horse S&*T! It give the true hunters a bad rep, And you are helping them even if you don't relize it . It's called ratings, The more people that watch that crap the higher the ratings and the better chance they have of getting brought back for a second season, So if you care anything about this hobby STOP! watching that CrappyAZZed Show.