Are Victorio Peak & Four Corners Gold Possably Related Stories?

[monkeymann]

I was reading up on the Victorio Peak treasure story the other day and I couldn't help but wonder if it had some connection to the Four Corners treasure story. I just found it wierd that the Discovery that Doc Noss supposidly made at Victorio Peak, was with in the same time frame that the Four Corners treasure was buried. It just made me wonder if they may have been the same treasure/story.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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[Springfield]

Good observation, mm. Many of the treasure legends we are now so familiar with, not to mention even more tales of a local nature that are not so well publicized, either experienced their 'moment of discovery' or were 're-energized' in the 1930's. Same thing happened ca 1980's. Must be some sort of a 50-year cycle to keep the clues fresh in the minds of the curious.

[monkeymann]

I just thought that it was rather "Coincidental" that both stories start around 1933. Both stories were about stacks of gold hidden in a cave in southern N.M.
So what was the case? If the Four Corners gold had been deposited in the early 1930's, and then right around that same time period, Doc Noss found it, I seem to think that the original owners of the gold wouldn't have just sat by and let this occur. And the last survivor of the supposed burial of the Four Corners gold died in the 70's if I recall correctly, so that doesn't really make any since either?

I wonder which story holds more credible evidence of having actually occurred.....Victorio Peak -or- Four Corners Treasure "Or Both"?

I haven't really researched the Four Corners Treasure story enough yet to decide if it was a credible story. And the whole Doc Noss story is full of confusion. I mean, did anyone ever "Really" see any gold come out of Victoria Peak? I've often wondered if the whole Victoria Peak story was some sort of elaborate scam that was concocted by Doc Noss, either to bilk people investing in the project out of their money, or to conceal the true location of any treasure he might have found.

The story of the people from Florida that have apparently found a cave to the west of Victorio Peak, south of Truth or Consequences, really seems to match Doc Noss's story, at least as it pertains to the primitive ladder system that they supposedly found in the cave. As well as the type of cave that it was... IE. basic lay out of the cave. It seemed to match the one that Doc Noss described in his account of finding the cave he claims to have found. Unless that type of ladder system either is still commonly found in the caves of the area, or there wasn't one found to be at Victoria Peak by subsequent explorers, which would lead one to believe that Victorio Peak might have been interwined into Doc Noss's story in such a way that the Ladder system found its way into the Victorio Peak story inadvertently, when it was infact part of the "True" story of where and how Doc Noss found the cave of gold.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??

[Springfield]

It's my opinion that there was a substantial amount of gold removed from Victorio Peak. Whether there is any left is unknown. It's known that Noss was involved there and earlier was also all over the Caballos. How the two locations are connected is unknown as far as I'm aware. The Caballos are, and always have been, full of scammers claiming to know the whereabouts of hidden treasure. I believe that there is at least one large cache of gold bars there, and that those who are trying to find it don't have the wherewithal to locate it, although some of them are probably at least in the ballpark. Those who talk the most generally are those who have the inferior knowledge.

I don't believe the Four Corners story. There may be a substantial gold cache somewhere in the area, but I think the story that is told is a diversion to keep people off track.

Here is something to think about: these large caches and others are not, and never have been lost - they still belong to their owners, who know exactly where they are. People smart enough to gain possession of these amounts of riches don't 'lose' them. Of course, a lot of people don't believe this, but then nobody is recovering these caches either, are they?

[monkeymann]

Has anyone heard anything about the guys who found the cave in the Caballo Mtns. The ones who set up the solar powered camera monitoring system.
Is this a legitimate find? After I saw the pictures that the guys posted of the in side of the cave, something really stood out for me. I recalled the part of the Victorio Peak/Doc Noss treasure story in which Doc Noss described the "Ladder System" in the cave at Victorio Peak. He distinctly described the exact same style of a "Primitive One Rung" ladder and a second ladder going deeper into the cave.
Now either these ladders were commonly used in these caves and may be its not too far fetched to find this same ladder set up in other cave......or theres something fishy going on here.
After I saw the pictures of the ladders I started to wonder if the whole Victorio Peak story had really been a sham. And some how the "Ladder System" that Doc Noss described accidentally, or on purpose, made its way into the Victorio Peak story.

Has anyone else had any thoughts on this angle?

[Springfield]

You're liable to find all sorts of primitive ladders in caves and old mines all over New Mexico and the southwest. The notched poles (chicken ladders) are the simplest and usually the oldest, but low-tech stuff such as chicken ladders, arrastras, etc. have also been used well into the 20th century. You make do with the resources available to you.

[lastleg]

monkyman:

The four corners of NM, CO, UTAH, ARIZ are a long way from Victoria Peak.
This is the location of the Navaho nation. The only story concerning the Four
Corners I know of was a supposed gold shipment plane crash. Is that the one
you are comparing VP to? It is an interesting story of a Mexican gold investor
attempting to cash in on the difference in price of Mexico/US gold bullion. I'm
sure I will be corrected if I don't have my facts straight. 1933 was the year FDR
attempted to confiscate US citizen's gold coinage.
Victoria Peak is out of reach on a military installation which tells me the Govt
has the real facts concerning gold bars stored inside the Mtn. KGC researchers
insist it was a Knights depository. If you want to waste a portion of your life
exploring either one of these treasure yarns you will have plenty of company.

lastleg

[Connecticut Sam]

I live in the Bridgeport Connecticut, far far away.

[Martian Monster]

I was reading up on the Victorio Peak treasure story the other day and I couldn't help but wonder if it had some connection to the Four Corners treasure story. I just found it wierd that the Discovery that Doc Noss supposidly made at Victorio Peak, was with in the same time frame that the Four Corners treasure was buried. It just made me wonder if they may have been the same treasure/story.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Response: That is one of the most RIDICULOUS theories I have ever heard ! Martian Monster

[Martian Monster]

I just thought that it was rather "Coincidental" that both stories start around 1933. Both stories were about stacks of gold hidden in a cave in southern N.M.
So what was the case? If the Four Corners gold had been deposited in the early 1930's, and then right around that same time period, Doc Noss found it, I seem to think that the original owners of the gold wouldn't have just sat by and let this occur. And the last survivor of the supposed burial of the Four Corners gold died in the 70's if I recall correctly, so that doesn't really make any since either?

I wonder which story holds more credible evidence of having actually occurred.....Victorio Peak -or- Four Corners Treasure "Or Both"?

I haven't really researched the Four Corners Treasure story enough yet to decide if it was a credible story. And the whole Doc Noss story is full of confusion. I mean, did anyone ever "Really" see any gold come out of Victoria Peak? I've often wondered if the whole Victoria Peak story was some sort of elaborate scam that was concocted by Doc Noss, either to bilk people investing in the project out of their money, or to conceal the true location of any treasure he might have found.

The story of the people from Florida that have apparently found a cave to the west of Victorio Peak, south of Truth or Consequences, really seems to match Doc Noss's story, at least as it pertains to the primitive ladder system that they supposedly found in the cave. As well as the type of cave that it was... IE. basic lay out of the cave. It seemed to match the one that Doc Noss described in his account of finding the cave he claims to have found. Unless that type of ladder system either is still commonly found in the caves of the area, or there wasn't one found to be at Victoria Peak by subsequent explorers, which would lead one to believe that Victorio Peak might have been interwined into Doc Noss's story in such a way that the Ladder system found its way into the Victorio Peak story inadvertently, when it was infact part of the "True" story of where and how Doc Noss found the cave of gold.

Anyone have any thoughts on this??
YES! I found a 'chicken ladder' in a cave in Victorio Peak in 1957 ( Martian Monster )

[Connecticut Sam]

Many great comments.

[Peerless67]

I was reading up on the Victorio Peak treasure story the other day and I couldn't help but wonder if it had some connection to the Four Corners treasure story. I just found it wierd that the Discovery that Doc Noss supposidly made at Victorio Peak, was with in the same time frame that the Four Corners treasure was buried. It just made me wonder if they may have been the same treasure/story.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Response: That is one of the most RIDICULOUS theories I have ever heard ! Martian Monster

Care to elaborate Martian monster ? Why is it ridiculous ?

[Connecticut Sam]

Very interesting.

[gollum]

Peerless,

Martian Monster has been closely involved with the Victorio Peak Story since 1954. There aren't many people alive that know more about the subject than him.

Monkeyman,

As previously stated, the Four Corners Story is faaar away from Victorio Peak (even though they're in the same state). As to the veracity of the Four Corners Story, several of the people that sat on the Grand Jury Trial regarding the FCT moved to the area of Shiprock, NM after the hearing was over to search for the treasure. That says a lot.

Mike

[Peerless67]

Peerless,

Martian Monster has been closely involved with the Victorio Peak Story since 1954. There aren't many people alive that know more about the subject than him.

Mike, 1954 or 2004, I would still like to know why it is ridiculous.

Monkeyman,

As previously stated, the Four Corners Story is faaar away from Victorio Peak (even though they're in the same state). As to the veracity of the Four Corners Story, several of the people that sat on the Grand Jury Trial regarding the FCT moved to the area of Shiprock, NM after the hearing was over to search for the treasure. That says a lot.

Mike

Mike lets say you had 10 tons of gold bars buried on gold bar mountain in California, lets also say that some government agencies got wind of it and you wind up in front of a grand jury.
Where would you tell them the gold was ?

[gollum]

I know what you are saying, but with the exception of the one thin thread of Emil Holdahl, the two stories have completely different casts of characters.

Also, while some of the information has already been made public, some has not. The has not part points in a very different direction than Villa. I don't know if it will come out in Clarence's Books or another one or not. Martian says it is ridiculous because he knows that information. I can't say because of confidentialities. He may or may not choose to tell.

Mike

[Springfield]

IMHO, 17 Tons, Hembrillo Basin, Organ Mountains, Caballo Mountains, Cookes Peak, Santo Nino de Atocha Mountain and possibly others, all of which 'came to life' in the 1930's, are related. I agree with Peerless: Monster, we'd like to hear what you have to say.

[gollum]

This question was mostly answered on the other thread. Alex referred to it in a post he had made. He stated that Doc Noss had maps and papers that pointed to six other locations in the general area. There was a name on the map that points away from Villa.

I don't know for certain the answer you seek will be in a book or not, but I suspect so, because it provides a reason for certain conclusions that have been reached regarding VP.

Best-Mike

[Springfield]

This question was mostly answered on the other thread. Alex referred to it in a post he had made. He stated that Doc Noss had maps and papers that pointed to six other locations in the general area. There was a name on the map that points away from Villa.

I don't know for certain the answer you seek will be in a book or not, but I suspect so, because it provides a reason for certain conclusions that have been reached regarding VP.

Best-Mike

Yes, I know he made a reference to maps/documents that Noss allegedly possessed. If memory serves, the Chandler book also mentions Noss burning a stack of paper documents he retrieved from Victorio Peak that somehow related to the owners of the gold. If such documents exist, one would think that they were not destroyed.

Another acquaintance, close to all this Southern New Mexico intrigue for generations, also discussed with me multiple major caches, all dating Pre-Columbian. Six plus one locations equals seven. Interesting. The answers to the questions that interest me the most will certainly not be found in a book.

Interestingly, another acquaintance, totally ambivalent about the Noss legend, claims that, regarding the major caches, 'Villa knew something, and had a map'. I've been trying to get the guy to expound on this for years, but he hasn't opened up yet. Maybe just whiskey talk.

[Peerless67]

IMHO, 17 Tons, Hembrillo Basin, Organ Mountains, Caballo Mountains, Cookes Peak, Santo Nino de Atocha Mountain and possibly others, all of which 'came to life' in the 1930's, are related. I agree with Peerless: Monster, we'd like to hear what you have to say.

Springfield, do you know of an account of the 17 tons that predates 1952 ?