Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
Member
Discoveries
 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

« Prev Thread | Next Thread »
  1. #1

    Feb 2008
    1,487
    19 times

    The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Dallas Texas May 1935:

    Dallas Police watching a car that had been wrecked to see if the driver would come back, finally they confirmed it belonged to George Lorius of Louis Ill.
    Contact with the family found that Laura and George Lorius, both the age of 45 years, along with Tille and Albert Heberer left on vacation out west. The four use to go on vacations together.

    Two post cards had been mailed from Vaughn NM. These stated that the group intended to go to Boulder dam ( Now Hoover dam) after exploring New Mexico a bit. The post card put them in Vaughn NM on or about May 21 or 22. A receipt for gasoline found in the car was from Socorro NM, along with the odometer readings, and a hand written recept, also with Odometer readings: was determined to be from Quemado NM on may 23: that gas station person correctly identified the make and type of the car. It is unknown if his had writing was compared to the receipt. He also identified the group from the photos shown.
    From the Odometer statements only about 50 miles was unaccounted for be the federal investigators of the time. ( Note this is being the car was found in Dallas TX. )
    Travel by the found receipts was from St Louis to Vaughn, to Socorro, and supposedly to Quemado then minus 50 miles or so Dallas TX.

    It is said that Vaughn is were a nurse lived that had helped one of the group, the group was to visit the nurse. .
    As far as the newspapers go it was at a Vaughn motel that the group was last seen.

    One story in the news papers show the group to be in Albuquerque NM on May 22 at a Parking lot from 2:05PM until about 6 o'clock. This news Story even gives the cars plate as Illinois 821133.

    Forged checks showed up in the area of Vaughn NM and possibly the route taken with the car to Dallas TX, during the investigation. These were linked to a man with a distinctive tattoo on his arm.
    A wreck site around Socorro NM was also related to this description. At the scene of the accident people that helped with the wreck: were told the man had fallen asleep at the wheel. One of the wreck sites had pieces of aluminum from the car, a pack of matches from ST Louis and possibly some damaged upholstery, as well as a ladies compact. The car was serviced and ended up in Dallas TX. A hotel room in El Paso TX was registered to a man with a tattooed arm, The man registered as "James Sullivan": the Feds assumed it was the same man. Apparently the car was also pulled over by a boarder patrol man out side of El Paso TX, and the erratic driving explained away as the driver being tiered from drinking in Mexico, at this time it is said the driver identified themselves as Loruis. Two accident sites were discovered south of Socorro NM. One 7 miles and the other 44 miles. These were assumed to be the car involved in the case.

    About a month after the start of the investigation on the west Mesa in Albuquerque NM, a still smoldering pile was found, that had identifiable material that belonged to the group. This was found by two young cowboys. A look into days gone by of investigative techniques is the example of allowing a great deal of lookers into that area ( says into the 100s of people) in which people even picked up material for souvenirs . One news paper reported that a car was nearby that bearing the name of MRS Herberer. (Note: unknown if this was some car that had the name, or a different car involved in the case). Some were in this time frame two letters were sent from Albuquerque NM. Who sent them is unknown but believed to be the perpetrators of the disappearance.
    A search of pawn shops was done looking for the rings the women had with them, and other such item that may have belonged to the group.

    So what happened to these people? The FBI supposedly had a six foot high pile of investigative reports on this. NM state police it is still an open investigation. And how may documents surrounding other places of investigation in to this matter is unknown.

    These four people passing through NM, did they encounter a strange tale of gold bars and end up dead because of that? Who is to say. So far it is still an unsolved case. It caused one of the largest man hunts in NM history, and still is one of the major mystery's in the US.

    One story relating to Doc Noss:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=rSQ...page&q&f=false

    In a thread on this forum a different story is related: Reference WD or Daught
    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg2884885

    I will have to ask around and see what other tales of this, and the, gold can be found.
    One thing I will say is that both stories put the death of these folks some were in the caballos, not V peak.
    Noss did have mining claims in Sierra county New Mexico, for people that don't know..





  2. #2

    Feb 2008
    1,487
    19 times

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Cross checking the local folklore of this case.

    As for Mrs. Josie Morgan Butler, also know as bell, It is said they owned a hotel in Albuquerque NM.

    The story goes that they arrived in T or C and stayed in a motel owned by the Palmer Bros.
    They were listened in on through the walls: upon in which was found out they had a map, and intended to go to Hatch to find some one they had been told could help them in the mountains.

    The Palmer Bros intervened and told them they would take em to a cave of gold for such an amount of money. Supposedly three of the group went to the cave, while the other one stayed in the car with a box of some sort full of money. While in the cave on of the three panicked and ran out. A mistake.
    If the brother that was showing them the gold did not come out first, then it was to be assumed the other things had gone wrong. That individual that came out first shot the first one out of the hole, and therefore to cover that the rest were killed.
    Strange story.

    One other story that came up, was the west mesa burring of stuff.
    It was said that the reason the two cowboys discovered the site was they thought a woman needed help to put out a fire.

    One of the story's is that women was Josie herself.
    Such that the Palmer's had given her the stuff, and after the investigation started she got rid of it.

    Strange is that folklore can have some strange tales. Of course the tales are based upon the Lorius case.

    Was Josie directly involved in the case?? Was her story of Noss/ Star in ALBQ, have any real truth. Her stories and, others seem to place the Lorius and group at a hotel in ALBQ. that she was involved with.

    Does the folklore have any truth to what happen to the group. Believers believe. So far makes for an interesting tale. I may have to see what records can be got from the NM state police files, and the FBI files.

    Nothing like an old "murder??" mystery and tales of gold to get me interest.


  3. #3
    us
    Sep 2007
    1,797
    47 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    A very great interesting story. Thanks.

  4. #4

    Feb 2008
    1,487
    19 times

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Quote Originally Posted by Connecticut Danny
    A very great interesting story. Thanks.
    If nothing else this shows how the real and tales can get intertwined. Folklore has a way of doing that.

    It might be that Noss/Star sold em a map, and they ended up with the Palmer bros, in which this incident is how they found WD hole..
    Yet is it still possible the two stories are not related at all, and got mixed into each others mess across the years

  5. #5
    us
    Sep 2007
    1,797
    47 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    I still believe that Noss took out some treasure and the army took the rest.

  6. #6
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    4,318
    1148 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Hey Lost,

    I don't believe that there was ever any testimony that Doc ever sold maps to anybody.

    I hate to sound like I am pimping the book buuuuuut ........... Book 1 of the Gold House Trilogy does go into a lot of detail about the Lorius/Heberer Disappearances/Murders. Jack got a lot of the files of the New Mexico State Police. His version of the story takes that into account along with many personal interviews, and records of interviews conducted by the Noss Family over the years.

    He told me that he is considering adding an appendix to the set containing copies of documents and larger versions of the pictures from the Noss Family Archives. I think that would be a great idea.

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  7. #7

    Feb 2008
    1,487
    19 times

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    gollum
    The Noss connection other than Ova death bed thing, is just one of them stories that abound. As for what is wrote in the book on this case... well a bit more research could have been done. Just my opinion. And strangely this tread and your statement about all the info the writer has from Noss group archives also states a bit of the why it is biased in Noss direction. Seems a 4th book is already being looked into..

  8. #8
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    4,318
    1148 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Lost,
    I don't remember whether you have a copy of the book or not, but if you did, I doubt you would be saying that about the research of this story.

    And strangely this tread and your statement about all the info the writer has from Noss group archives also states a bit of the why it is biased in Noss direction.
    By "this tread" I assume you mean "this thread". I don't really understand that because it is YOUR thread not mine.

    As far as a bias towards Noss, I admit that since I first started learning about this story many years ago, I have always had a bias towards Noss. No matter what Doc's faults may have been (and there were many), nobody familiar with the story can honestly say that the Noss Family hasn't been screwed, blued, and tattooed by Uncle Sam. If you read the book, you will see that several times, Doc tried to do the proper thing (read legal), and was screwed.

    In this case, it was a perfect storm of a poor, uneducated man, who found a fortune, and through his own misconduct, dishonest actions of the government, and unscrupulous individuals, the Noss Family lost forever what should have set up their great great grandchildren for life. If Doc would have been educated, had money, had HONEST connections, or any number of other attributes, the story would have been very different.

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  9. #9
    us
    Nov 2010
    Glendale, Ca
    64
    7 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Seems the U.S govt had some Nazi gold and once Doc Noss said he found 100 tons of gold, that was the opening for our govt to salt the Peak with the Nazi gold(and keep it secret) and then "steal" the entire treasure from Doc and Babe. People are gonna make a big stink if 2 country folk get skrewed. However, itll be an international travesty if the U.S says "we have Nazi gold". By adding it into the cave, they can just keep "denying" that they took the Noss treasure, and not mention the Nazi treasure.



    Same thing with the Yamashito gold. President Marcos already had gold...hundreds of millions. So by adding Yamashitos gold to his stash already, nobody can say **** to him. Which he did. When he stole it from Rogelio Roxas and basically ruined his life.

    Moral of the story: this in power will hide facts and lie to get what they want.

  10. #10

    Feb 2008
    1,487
    19 times

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    gollum
    In this thread you answered a statement made in a different thread. It was the bias with Noss the book seems to have.
    If most of the info came from the Noss famialy then it would be biased with Noss.

    As for "Noss Family hasn't been screwed, blued, and tattooed by Uncle Sam."
    I put it as Noss Family hasn't been screwed, blued, and tattooed by NOSS himself. But that is my bias.

    As for the folks that disappeared, well who is to say what really went on with them.
    The statement they parked under the tree, when a parking ticket in a parking lot had the plate number on it was recovered from that time makes me question some of the statment in the book: yet it was just a transcription of a interview with a person concerning the subject..

  11. #11
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    4,318
    1148 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Lost,

    I have never said that "most" of the author's information came from the Noss Family Archives. I said that the family allowed him unprecedented access to their archives. Don't dismiss the years of research done by the author of state and federal archives, video and telephone interviews, etc.

    Starting shortly after Doc's Murder, Ova (and later Letha) spent an inordinate amount of time finding and getting sworn affidavits, and personal interviews with anybody and everybody that she knew that had anything at all to do with VP. Things like that would have no bias whatsoever towards or against the family. If all the author did was to have interviewed family members and quoted their letters and notes, then you would be correct, but you are not.

    I repeat; Doc was an uneducated part indian in VERY rural New Mexico. If you were in his shoes, maybe you would have known just what to do to keep everything. I doubt it. I doubt I would have fared much better, when you consider all the power and money that was lined up against him. I don't know you, but as for me, I do know one thing, I wouldn't have gone on those long drunks that Doc did so often after selling off some gold. My mind may have been in better condition to deal with all the people allied against him.

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  12. #12
    us
    Oct 2011
    238
    126 times

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Quote Originally Posted by gollum
    Lost,
    I don't remember whether you have a copy of the book or not, but if you did, I doubt you would be saying that about the research of this story.

    And strangely this tread and your statement about all the info the writer has from Noss group archives also states a bit of the why it is biased in Noss direction.
    By "this tread" I assume you mean "this thread". I don't really understand that because it is YOUR thread not mine.

    As far as a bias towards Noss, I admit that since I first started learning about this story many years ago, I have always had a bias towards Noss. No matter what Doc's faults may have been (and there were many), nobody familiar with the story can honestly say that the Noss Family hasn't been screwed, blued, and tattooed by Uncle Sam. If you read the book, you will see that several times, Doc tried to do the proper thing (read legal), and was screwed.

    In this case, it was a perfect storm of a poor, uneducated man, who found a fortune, and through his own misconduct, dishonest actions of the government, and unscrupulous individuals, the Noss Family lost forever what should have set up their great great grandchildren for life. If Doc would have been educated, had money, had HONEST connections, or any number of other attributes, the story would have been very different.

    Mike
    Good Morning Mr. Black

    This is Roger Snow

    "Funny World,,, I wonder what it's for"

    There is a Treasury Department Document i have reviewed.

    As you already am aware
    i have reviewed dozens,,, let me state it exact,, STACKS OF CLASSIFIED U.S. DOCUMENTS!

    1983 was an interesting year for my reviewing of documents that dated back to 1909
    Doc Noss, had absolutley NO CLAIM TO ANYTHING TREASURE RELATED IN ANY OF THAT AREA.

    The3 ONFP is not without their stains of the soul as well.

    i could get real descriptive, release on the forum some facts,,
    and i should do that.
    Noss was pure and simple a con artist, drug addicted drunken CROOK.
    SIMPLE ENOUGH?

    think!

    WHY DOES THE nOSS FAMILY STAY mute OVER THE YEARS ON ALL THIS new INFO THE aUTHOUR jACK sTALEY ( Clarence on this Forum) has suddenly dug up and release.

    Fiction Noveles are NOT my Gig,
    i neitherread nor write them.

    CLASSIFIED: states Noss Met a Apache i n Prison who was doing life without parole for robbery of a gold bar,,,

    a jUDGE DID THAT TO THE POOR MAN TO GET HIM TO tell THE jUDGE WHERE THE TREASURES OF HIS tRIBE WAS HIDDEN,
    THIS aPACHE, CAME TO TOWN TRYING TO SELL A Gold Bar to help pay for his family members surgery
    he was arrested and jail
    gold bar confiscated
    and the Judge set him up to force him to tell where the rest of the treasure

    NOss, be-friended him
    the old boy gave Noss a Deerskin hide Jackey with a map hidden under the lining

    Noss got out of jail just after the apache died of pneumonia
    Noss heard of willies find and a couple others
    and Willie soon had to vacate New Mexico because of the THRAT to his life that Doc-ie Noss posed to his life.

    want me to expose some more TRUTH about this idiotic crap called the NOSS claim to Gold?

    I can do that.

    Roger

  13. #13
    us
    Nov 2010
    Glendale, Ca
    64
    7 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Mike
    [/quote]

    Good Morning Mr. Black

    This is Roger Snow

    "Funny World,,, I wonder what it's for"

    There is a Treasury Department Document i have reviewed.

    As you already am aware
    i have reviewed dozens,,, let me state it exact,, STACKS OF CLASSIFIED U.S. DOCUMENTS!

    1983 was an interesting year for my reviewing of documents that dated back to 1909
    Doc Noss, had absolutley NO CLAIM TO ANYTHING TREASURE RELATED IN ANY OF THAT AREA.

    The3 ONFP is not without their stains of the soul as well.

    i could get real descriptive, release on the forum some facts,,
    and i should do that.
    Noss was pure and simple a con artist, drug addicted drunken CROOK.
    SIMPLE ENOUGH?

    think!

    WHY DOES THE nOSS FAMILY STAY mute OVER THE YEARS ON ALL THIS new INFO THE aUTHOUR jACK sTALEY ( Clarence on this Forum) has suddenly dug up and release.

    Fiction Noveles are NOT my Gig,
    i neitherread nor write them.

    CLASSIFIED: states Noss Met a Apache i n Prison who was doing life without parole for robbery of a gold bar,,,

    a jUDGE DID THAT TO THE POOR MAN TO GET HIM TO tell THE jUDGE WHERE THE TREASURES OF HIS tRIBE WAS HIDDEN,
    THIS aPACHE, CAME TO TOWN TRYING TO SELL A Gold Bar to help pay for his family members surgery
    he was arrested and jail
    gold bar confiscated
    and the Judge set him up to force him to tell where the rest of the treasure

    NOss, be-friended him
    the old boy gave Noss a Deerskin hide Jackey with a map hidden under the lining

    Noss got out of jail just after the apache died of pneumonia
    Noss heard of willies find and a couple others
    and Willie soon had to vacate New Mexico because of the THRAT to his life that Doc-ie Noss posed to his life.

    want me to expose some more TRUTH about this idiotic crap called the NOSS claim to Gold?

    I can do that.

    Roger


    [/quote]

    Yes Roger, please expose some more TRUTH. I'm not one to pretend to be a hunter. I just read to stimulate the mind. So now with that said, the truth(for me) is irrelevant. The pursuit of the truth, whatever it may be, is the fun part. So weather Noss found gold that was Apache, Phoenician, from Padre La Rue, or whatever.....New information is always stimulating. Even if he didn't find anything, he dooped people.....so.....tell us more about it.

  14. #14
    us
    Oct 2011
    238
    126 times

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Jackrook

    SHUT YOUR A$$ UP jACK

    NO CARE WHAT YOU DELUDE YOUR MIND WITH
    INSIGNIFICANT MORON
    TAKE THE OPTHER HALF OF YOUR PILL
    AND STAY INDOORS WHERE YOU CAN'T TEAR THINGS UP LITTLE ONE

  15. #15
    us
    Nov 2010
    Glendale, Ca
    64
    7 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lorius Heberer case, 1935 New Mexico, posibly reated to Noss Or Willie D

    Quote Originally Posted by treasminder2
    Jackrook

    SHUT YOUR A$$ UP jACK

    NO CARE WHAT YOU DELUDE YOUR MIND WITH
    INSIGNIFICANT MORON
    TAKE THE OPTHER HALF OF YOUR PILL
    AND STAY INDOORS WHERE YOU CAN'T TEAR THINGS UP LITTLE ONE
    if you didnt want an answer then you shouldnt have asked the question. what question? this one: want me to expose some more TRUTH about this idiotic crap called the NOSS claim to Gold?

    im just here for the truth.

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New

Sponsors

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

heberber and lorius investigation
,

heberer lorius

,

heberer lorius case

,
laura lorius
,
lorius heberer murder
,
new mexico treasure tales
,
nm treasure mrs. butler
,
sierra county new mexico homicide
,
unsolved murders new mexico vaughn
,

yamashitos gold

Click on a term to search for related topics.
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.3