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  1. #16
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    Swingy Thingy

    Nov 2010
    Las Cruces, New Mexico
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    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    Quote Originally Posted by treasminder2
    Jack, say it is 1244
    you just got here on a ship from france
    you found a huge treasure and can only take so much of it back to france


    what do you do about the treasure you have to leave behind?

    do you document a way to find it again by your Progeny ?

    If you have all you can use, more then you can spend before you die,,
    and you left a huge amount that you could not get home to France

    Get it Now?

    Templars found the Route to Ophir ( where treasure is stored in the Southwest) when the Occupied Tyre
    during the Crusades.

    THAT'S THE FAMILY JACK.

    THEY CAME, THEY TOOK WHAT THEY COULD CARRY BACK TO FRANCE

    AND PASSED MAPS AND LETTERS DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS TO THEIR SON'S.

    get it?
    To not get two different subject confused I replied separately to this thread. There is some very good points made in this thread, more so than any others I have yet to read.

    I have found signs of Templar being here. Yet no record exist that we know of. There are other older signs also mixed in too. The Pueblo or Mesoamericans is a few examples. I am no expert and probably spelled that wrong. But the Chaco Meridian is a good example of some very advance Atsrology and possible navigation. But to what end I dont know. The Kensington Ruin Stone is another good example of many that someone, possibly Templars where here many hundred of years before the Spanish.

    From here it only gets unbelievable so I will leave the campfire story's out of this.

    So how do you know you have found something 100, 400, 1200 years old? Dating a find is most important. It helps with who and what and so on. So dating a find is very important to me. Anything that survives hundreds of years would be a find. I am a rock hound. Its legal and as long as your not digging or taking anything home no one cares. So I take pictures.

    Every time I go out, I just am truly amazed at whats out there. Just got to look for it. Yes the sword and the shield was the tool of the day, and to find them you are on to something.

    I would very much like to spend one hour with a member of that family. To better understand how certain things were done.

    The construction of mines and vaults were great undertakings and no modern tools exist. Iron tools would have made excavations possible. I believe the french carried iron for trade purposes. It all keeps coming to a point and then stopping.

    The idea a person could sail hundreds of miles, travel through the wilderness, and be able to find a exact spot is mind boggling. I have seen old maps. As sailors they must of had a way to mark exact spots with there sextants. Because there isnt any way to just walk back to a spot you have been. I know as it took me a week to locate my first find off a known trail. A chip off a rock, a iron smear, or formation of rocks in a certain way is just a few. Now a man on horseback changes the view point and yet there is even more ways to find a hidden trail. The first ones also had the sun and shadow at their disposal. To make sure they could still find it, in case one sign disappeared, there was also a redundancy of signs. meaning you wont find just one sign there will be many. There is close signs and far signs. Dark signs, and light signs....ect.

    The french was not the only one to mark their territory here, but were probably the first. Somewhere down the line that information came to the king of Spain. The open pit mines of the natives were soon turned into what we know as modern mines. The Spanish, Mayans, and Aztecs all understood how and where certain minerals could be found. The Spanish introduced trade to the Continent. A trail system established.

    A few hundred years ago the Spanish left, and soon Mexico lost a large part of their country of what we call California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. We had guys like Pancho Villa and his army even running the show here. The point is, yes there is some stuff out there to be found. But after a few hundred years of guys like you and me, where do we look?

    Most of the loot is found buried in the basement of the church. Some is found in ancient caverns and caves. Some is found in a closet of a deceased relative. I try to look at areas of what it was 200 years ago.

    The landscape has changed. the water tables have dropped. Large portions of the United States have been drained to make room for housing and such. But 200 years ago they needed water. They needed shelter from the wild animals, environment, and many groups of people. They needs food and used to grow crops. Gold and Silver would have been smelted and made ready for travel to Mexico City. But where to put large amounts of gold and silver?

    I have included all this as I could see so guy trying to explain to his lord where his fortune is and how it is safeguarded? Too funny. Its under a rock or in a cave. Yea we only had 200 mules, what was I supposed to do? Im sure many trips were made to the mines. But it just is funny to me.

    The question I think all serious Treasure Hunters ask, is why have they not come back for it? I wont risk being taken apart by this crowd on here, but I have already mentioned a few.

    The fact is, there is a well know expedition by a three toed priest who left his mark everywhere. It just happens to cross many a treasure sites also. I used to laugh when I envisioned a band of wandering artist and craftsmen making hearts out of rocks in the wilderness. Then I realized, if it was big enough, and they had the time(400 years), maybe it really did happen. But no record of such gold was found. If it had been stolen it could not have went unreported or even moved without someone seeing it. They used mules and moved in the terms of hours not miles lol.

    So frenchy or amigo if your reading this and ready to go get your gold let me know. I say the Organs was just the southern tip of a trail and one of many places a person could find or stash something. I think more than just The Victorio Peak and Tesoro Del Alma is of but a few, and possibly the lost Dutchman, and others all hold some things in common.
    HIGH PERFORMANCE The F75 is a multi-purpose high-performance computerized metal detector. It has the high sensitivity and ground balancing control needed for professional gold prospecting, the discrimination responsiveness needed for serious relic hunting under difficult conditions, and visual target ID considered essential in searching for coins. The F75 operates at 13 kHz for good sensitivity to gold nuggets and jewelry as well as to coins. The F75 comes with an 11-inch elliptical Bi-Axial searchcoil for maximum detection depth in mineralized soils.

  2. #17
    Charter Member
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    Swingy Thingy

    Nov 2010
    Las Cruces, New Mexico
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    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    Quote Originally Posted by treasminder2
    Quote Originally Posted by jackrook
    Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

    All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

    Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.
    Navarez' waybill

    " Ask at El Paso Del Norte' where the Sierra De Organos and Caballo are located.

    It is 2 days by Horse Back ata a good pace

    coming upon the Camino Re'al , you will see the mountains on your Left,, and,
    a PLAIN, the end of which cannot be seen on your right where the Sun Sets.
    ( the Camino Re'al that Pedro speaks of is todays highway 54 from El Paso to Alamogordo,, NOT The Joranado Del Muerto far to the West )

    On your left you will see 3 lomitas at a good distance( small hills ) and on first sight of these, turn left into the Mountains. ( These are the Tres hermanos out to the Northwest and cannot be seen until you are even with Soledad Canyon coming up SR54 from El Paso)

    Entering the Canyon you will find a spring, not too far inside the canyon.
    This canyon has two passes,,, One, Endura Tascoti ( Hard wood pass,, meaning the Oak tree grove
    at the west end of Soledad Canyon before you pass over into Bar Canyon from coming in from the east end of Soledad.

    The other pass ( seems i forget for the moment the name)
    anyway it is the east end of Soledad canyon.

    You camp there at the spring where the Cat-tails grow ( Tules)

    Coming on more or less level ground ( means if you are coming in from the east end of Soledad,
    it is a steep grade up out of the flat desert until you are just about to the Mouth of Dorcey Canyon)

    You will find the Siennas on the right ( Siennas are the picto-glyphs at eye level of a 5'8" man that are painted on a Bluff which is the end of the ridge that makes the West Wall of Dorcey Canyon)

    Ok, Pedro's
    letter map, rediterrio or whatever the He11 anyone calls it is describing two separate Canyons in the Organ Mountains

    One is Soledad and the other is Filmore. Johnson Canyon is in Letter #2 just before he talks of another range of Mountains)

    This is letter #1, pages 1 through 3.

    Letter #2, pages 1 and 2 are of a different Mountain Range.

    In letter #1 Pedro speaks of a flow of water that makes a POND that is Kinda big

    That Pond is Seasonal and also dependent on a good wet and snowy winter.
    it is on the west side right out to the west of Baylor Canyon.

    Early Spring after a wet winter and you'll see it with a small hill to the east of it with artifacts laying around on the surface or just below the surface.

    IT IS NOT A LAKE

    NOTE: HE11 NO! PEDRO'S STUFF IS NOT IN THE CABALLOS NOR VICTORIO PEAK.

    You took a whole lot of info and crunched it. One of the first things I realized was Pedro was lost, confused, or actually telling the truth in a devious way. In plain sight comes to mind here.

    I believe Pedro was protecting something even with certain death looking at him.

    I think Doc Noss knew something too. Along with the gold bars at Victorio Peak was other things not Spanish in nature.

    Its very likely Victorio Peak was discovered, and used a cache point by more than one person. Did Doc put it there, or someone else? Where was docs Real find if it was a con job?

    Along those lines, why just one place to hide gold? The Organs is a big place and so is Caballo.

    Ever see the add, lost Garmin somewhere between Baylors Pass and the East Trail Head. If you find it you can keep it? Now we are talking about a mine and smelting area, most likely terraformed into the side of a mountain, roughly 8 foot by 20 feet. There is a pond and three peaks. You can see the Valley below and have a several hour warning if anyone should approach. Your camp is made defendable by its location should it be found out or well known. You can see a pond that is not visible when your standing next to it. (please dont ask me to explain). Your camp has been placed out of view from the trail.

    Now lets picture Pedro, tortured, beaten, starved, stripped naked, and tied to a post about to be burned alive. His education will dictate what he knows. How much would a slave be required to know to serve his purpose? I do not believe one minute the Indians or peoples who came here to live were treated even close to a equal. Yea, three peaks and a pond works for me.

    Artifact: a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage, especially such an object found at an archaeological excavation.



    How to hide your Spanish Mine:


    Cibola is a totally different topic and definitely not Victorio Peak or Tesoro Del Alma. Not that the Organs may have at one time had caverns.

    Cibola would be a site based on belief.
    A large head

    Another large head.


    Not one mixed with Surveyor and Spanish symbolism.




    "X" does not mark the spot.

    But a heart just might.

    Cibola may very well be a city under ground or a large cave. I think we look at it literally. But it most likely is just a place of worship, and full of gold and silver lol.
    HIGH PERFORMANCE The F75 is a multi-purpose high-performance computerized metal detector. It has the high sensitivity and ground balancing control needed for professional gold prospecting, the discrimination responsiveness needed for serious relic hunting under difficult conditions, and visual target ID considered essential in searching for coins. The F75 operates at 13 kHz for good sensitivity to gold nuggets and jewelry as well as to coins. The F75 comes with an 11-inch elliptical Bi-Axial searchcoil for maximum detection depth in mineralized soils.

  3. #18
    us
    Nov 2010
    Glendale, Ca
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    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    Great info Casca. I often wonder why they didn't come back for more. There's no such thing as too much treasure. I understand mules and ship hulls being full. But why not come back again as soon as you unload the booty at home?

    And why aren't there people looking for this? I'm not talking about armchair treasure hunters who speculate about things, but actual expiditions blog the lines of the Ova Noss Partnership but at other sites. If this, or any, treasure is as vast and important as some people make it out to be, then it's gotta be worth the hunt.

  4. #19
    Charter Member
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    Swingy Thingy

    Nov 2010
    Las Cruces, New Mexico
    FisherF75 ,Garret Propointer ,Vivitar HD Cam, Lesche Digger.Only the best of the best Sir!
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    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    Quote Originally Posted by jackrook
    Great info Casca. I often wonder why they didn't come back for more. There's no such thing as too much treasure. I understand mules and ship hulls being full. But why not come back again as soon as you unload the booty at home?

    And why aren't there people looking for this? I'm not talking about armchair treasure hunters who speculate about things, but actual expiditions blog the lines of the Ova Noss Partnership but at other sites. If this, or any, treasure is as vast and important as some people make it out to be, then it's gotta be worth the hunt.
    My best guess is people are looking. But what Im finding is so well camoflaugued and positioned, its easier for the crooks to wait till you dig a hole so they can get at it. As for the mexicans, french, and church, you need a starting point and a 30 year education. Their way bills are worthless if they are looking at wrong mountain(hint, hint).

    Also a lot of the trail is now either reservation land, or Park Land that doesnt allow you to dig or detect, and some places even forbidden to enter. But if you google those places you can see a operating mine or quarry going on. Im talking roads that go into a mountain and have pairs of white suv's every mile or so on them. If you get too close you may get a visit from a fixed wing air craft or a black hummer.

    There also appears to be a lot of disinformation being put out. Best you keep notes and keep it to your self. Im not into grave robbing or playing in a 200 year old mine. So I enjoy the trail, and leave the rest for the bold.

    I do feel the sites all are linked and have similarities. A good reason to not put too much out there. One last thought, the trails have been partially destroyed along with landmarks. It seems the last land mark is connected to the next. But what Im seeing is pretty simple stuff so far. But if you dont know to look for it, you would never guess anything was there.

    Take a camera and leave the shovel at home. You and your family will enjoy the time together not lost looking at rocks.
    HIGH PERFORMANCE The F75 is a multi-purpose high-performance computerized metal detector. It has the high sensitivity and ground balancing control needed for professional gold prospecting, the discrimination responsiveness needed for serious relic hunting under difficult conditions, and visual target ID considered essential in searching for coins. The F75 operates at 13 kHz for good sensitivity to gold nuggets and jewelry as well as to coins. The F75 comes with an 11-inch elliptical Bi-Axial searchcoil for maximum detection depth in mineralized soils.

  5. #20
    us
    Oct 2011
    238
    129 times

    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    Casca
    the 7 cibolas are "EXACTLY 7 SITES, CALL THEM UNDERGROUND CAVERNS OR CAVES"

    THEY ARE NOT CITIES

    3 main peaks with caverns are these: cooks peak, victorio, granite

    the other 4 are within sighting of the ranges these first 3 reside in.

    Pedro, as i said was from Narrare FRANCE

    Jackrook
    Imagine the trip here and back to france at that time

    would you, after making it here and back
    attempt a second trip if you did not NEED to?

    hey, get lucky once,,, don't push your luck
    get it?

  6. #21
    Charter Member
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    MINELAB XS-2 Pro ....... XTERRA 305 ....... EXPLORER SE PRO

    Dec 2003
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    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    I see Tesoro Del Alma made the March issue of LT Magazine.

    nice story & Pics


  7. #22
    Charter Member
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    Swingy Thingy

    Nov 2010
    Las Cruces, New Mexico
    FisherF75 ,Garret Propointer ,Vivitar HD Cam, Lesche Digger.Only the best of the best Sir!
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    Re: Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

    I suspect the ones who could read the trails were put to death.

    I also believe the resources to remove such treasures without drawing attention be too much risk.

    Last, if the Jesuits actually destroyed the waybills, one would have a very hard time locating mines.

    While I seem to have no problem finding old sites. I too wonder why no looks?
    HIGH PERFORMANCE The F75 is a multi-purpose high-performance computerized metal detector. It has the high sensitivity and ground balancing control needed for professional gold prospecting, the discrimination responsiveness needed for serious relic hunting under difficult conditions, and visual target ID considered essential in searching for coins. The F75 operates at 13 kHz for good sensitivity to gold nuggets and jewelry as well as to coins. The F75 comes with an 11-inch elliptical Bi-Axial searchcoil for maximum detection depth in mineralized soils.

  8. #23
    us
    Jun 2011
    Las Cruces, NM
    Gold Bug 2
    7
    I would like to go explore the Organs for the treasure, but isn't it on part of the missile range now? Is the military excavating the site? I hiked out there one time, but didn't feel right going past the warning signs and Dorcey Peak was too far in. I turned around. Anyway, aren't the military watching that area closely and wouldn't it take some heavy machinery to dig out the treasure from the cave?

  9. #24
    us
    Sep 2007
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    Response to #3... NO..

  10. #25
    us
    Sep 2011
    T-2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casca View Post
    You took a whole lot of info and crunched it. One of the first things I realized was Pedro was lost, confused, or actually telling the truth in a devious way. In plain sight comes to mind here.

    I believe Pedro was protecting something even with certain death looking at him.

    I think Doc Noss knew something too. Along with the gold bars at Victorio Peak was other things not Spanish in nature.

    Its very likely Victorio Peak was discovered, and used a cache point by more than one person. Did Doc put it there, or someone else? Where was docs Real find if it was a con job?

    Along those lines, why just one place to hide gold? The Organs is a big place and so is Caballo.

    Ever see the add, lost Garmin somewhere between Baylors Pass and the East Trail Head. If you find it you can keep it? Now we are talking about a mine and smelting area, most likely terraformed into the side of a mountain, roughly 8 foot by 20 feet. There is a pond and three peaks. You can see the Valley below and have a several hour warning if anyone should approach. Your camp is made defendable by its location should it be found out or well known. You can see a pond that is not visible when your standing next to it. (please dont ask me to explain). Your camp has been placed out of view from the trail.

    Now lets picture Pedro, tortured, beaten, starved, stripped naked, and tied to a post about to be burned alive. His education will dictate what he knows. How much would a slave be required to know to serve his purpose? I do not believe one minute the Indians or peoples who came here to live were treated even close to a equal. Yea, three peaks and a pond works for me.

    Artifact: a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage, especially such an object found at an archaeological excavation.



    How to hide your Spanish Mine:


    Cibola is a totally different topic and definitely not Victorio Peak or Tesoro Del Alma. Not that the Organs may have at one time had caverns.

    Cibola would be a site based on belief.
    A large head

    Another large head.


    Not one mixed with Surveyor and Spanish symbolism.



    But a heart just might.

    Cibola may very well be a city under ground or a large cave. I think we look at it literally. But it most likely is just a place of worship, and full of gold and silver lol.
    how deep is that drill hole in front of the triangle?

 

 
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