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Thread: What are the current theories?

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  1. #41

    Jun 2006
    Orange County, CA
    5

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I guess if there is any stray gold left around victorio peak, it would be the bars that Doc Noss never went back to dig up. I'm guessing if he was using a vehicle when he was taking the gold out to bury, those things could be anywhere. I would assume close to dirt roads as I doubt anyone would want to lug the heavy bars far. Especially an old man. Other thing is there is a remote chance that someone who recovered the gold would have missed a cavern and left some behind in the mountain. That would be pure chance though. Anyone think of putting some info on the theories on wikipedia.org , the online encyclopedia? I searched there first and it doesn't say much at all. Chris.

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  3. #42
    us
    Cptbild

    Oct 2005
    NM/AZ/CA/Co/Utah & P.I. Tx.
    339
    1 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I KNOW SOMETHING that no one else is aware of !
    THAT IS!
    There is a cache that The US Army Missed !
    It's smaller,
    But! HEY!
    Gold Bars ARE! Gold BARS!
    I know better than to ask if anyone is willing to take a risk and have a "GO" !
    Even tho,
    There's very little chance of being caught, But! ......
    Also!
    A Famous Metal Detector Manufacturer Personally told a Friend & Self,
    About a cave with stacks of gold bars, "finger bar" size, just inside, 3 miles, the fence!
    He brought out about 60 lbs worth !
    AND!
    Yes!
    He is still making MD's ..... (Which means, he's still alive and kicking!)
    I have his complete directions to the cave !
    PS: A very small portion of The Entrance,
    can actually be seen from Point of Rock's, "Grama Peak", with binocs!
    Cptbild & Bugs

  4. #43

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    This is the latest: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,69096.0.html

    Anyone who is interested in joining us in a serious attempt to secure this treasure, check it out!

  5. #44
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,488
    601 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    One question - are you soliciting funds for this hunt? No, two - are you totally naive? No offense, but anyone knowledgeable of the history and legal status of Hembrillo Basin will laugh you out of the room.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  6. #45

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I don't think I'm totally naive, but I suppose it's possible. I was stationed at White Sands Missile Range as a JAG officer for almost three years between 97 and 99. During that time, our office was litigating the Ova Noss Family Partnership lawsuit, and all of the decades of Army files were stored in our offices.

    Part of the lawsuit was a discovery process where the plaintiffs were required to turn over all of their files for our inspection. Those files were voluminous to say the least. Based on my research, I am convinced that there is something out there in the caverns below the surface, and I am also convinced that the Army tried to get in and take the caches, but were unsuccessful in doing so. Obviously I cannot reveal any classified or priviledged facts, but I am entitled to have an opinion, and I would venture to say that it is probably a pretty well informed opinion.

    Thus far, I haven't been laughed out of any rooms. To the contrary, there has been a very strong response.

    To answer your first question, I am not raising funds yet, but funding is always an integral part of any serious Treasure Hunting expedition, so we will have to get to that eventually.

  7. #46
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,488
    601 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Why do you believe your organization will be issued a permit?
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  8. #47

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    It isn't that hard to do, it just requires a substantial investment in lobbying the appropriate decision makers. Kind of like that guy Abramoff, except not illegal. As you saw from his misadventures, it isn't that hard to get high level access if you have plenty of cash to donate to the right (or in his case, wrong) causes. We wouldn't be asking for anything anyway, we would be offering a valuable service. The details on that are for folks who want to join the team.

  9. #48
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,488
    601 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there who will salivate over this scheme. All I have to say is, "Caveat emptor".
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  10. #49

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    It is a very interesting and ironic situation. I am not a treasure hunter, but my father in law is, and the map is his. I'm not interested in going after the treasure personally, but because of my background, experience, and knowledge of the case, I am probably in as good a position as anyone on earth to put the deal together and help the treasure seekers go for it.

    Caveat Emptor is good advice. There are numerous con artists out there trying to run Treasure Hunting scams. My plan would only allow half of all investment funds to go to Treasure Hunting while the rest would be invested in §1031 tax free real estate investments. That way nobody could likely lose more than half of their investment, and if properly managed, they would actually make some financial profit over time, even if we can't get to the treasure.

  11. #50
    us
    Jul 2006
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Garrett Ace 250
    1,287
    5 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Corpus Christi, Tx.
                          Member of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

  12. #51

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I just received a very rare copy of the official Army records relating to the Victorio Peak mine. My first thought was "Wow, how did he get his hands on this," followed by "Wow, this looks exactly like the documents I saw as a JAG officer at WSMR," followed by "WOW, THIS CONFIRMS MY LOCATION THEORY...". Check out the page that I posted at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,69096.0.html - neat stuff. The documents also corroborated my long held beliefs as to why neither the government nor the various claimants to the treasure has yet found the lost caches out there in the desert. Enjoy...

  13. #52
    Charter Member
    us
    MINELAB XS-2 Pro ....... XTERRA 305 ....... EXPLORER SE PRO

    Dec 2003
    S.W. Schuylkill County
    45,280
    4620 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: What are the current theories?

    DOC NOSS

    1/2 Hour after a Partner Shot him
    in 1949 in a Dispute over Gold.
    Doc was running for his own Pistol
    at the moment he was shot.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #53

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Great Photo Jeff! I am going to use it in my slide show. Remember what I said about the leading cause of failure to recover the treasure being greed of various family, "friends" and "partners"?

  15. #54

    Mar 2007
    Milwaukee
    67

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Didn't I see an episode of Unsolved Mysteries that proved the U.S. Army had indeed gained access to and remove LARGE amounts of gold. There was an Army guy named Orby Swaner who told people for years that in the 60's or 70's while he was in the Army that he was part of the excavation team that went inside Victorio Peak and removed all the gold. Then years later (90's I assume) someone (can't remember who, and interestingly the WSMR website ends the story in July '92, just as the expedition is about to breach the entrance) finally accessed the tunnel and got into the now empty vault. And lo and behold inscribed on one of the walls was the name Orby Swaner, his Army serial #, date and possibly some reference to the gold? I may have got a small detail or two wrong, but that was essentially the story.

    Pan Man

  16. #55

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I believe there was such an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, but I'm quite certain that their conclusion was erroneous. Swanner's statements were believed by many "in the know" to have been obtained by the Noss Family Partnership in exchange for a portion of their government recovery in the lawsuit. In other words, his story about removing the gold was fabricated to help the Noss group win in court.

    This may or may not be true, but based on the miniscule size of the exploration party that went into the caves, I doubt they could have removed that much gold so quickly. I have seen the government's files on Victorio Peak (or at least enough of them to separate most of the fact from fiction), and they reveal the story about gold removal to be a myth. Although I did not have access to the files (i.e. could not remove them), I have now obtained exact copies of some of the government's files and am posting some portions of them here on Tnet.

    One other important issue is the fact that Noss entered the Peak from one location, while Fiege, Swanner, et al entered from a different location. There are believed to be at least seven caves leading beneath the peak.

  17. #56

    Mar 2007
    Milwaukee
    67

    Re: What are the current theories?

    I see. They did show a photo of the inscription during the broadcast, but quite possibly it was a recreation for "dramatic purposes". With 2 definite entrances, and possibly up to 7, Doc's being at the "12:00" position, I can't understand how the folks in '77 and more recently in the '90's can't even find 1. It just doesn't seem to make sense unless someone with a good amount of resources (i.e. the Army) sealed them very well. What reason wold they have to do that unless it was to cover the fact that there's no longer the rich deposit of gold as there once was, not to mention the fact they seem to be making it very difficult for anyone to actually spend the proper amount of time searching. I'm not talking years, but why not let a professional team have about 2 or 3 months of unfettered access. Let 'em have at it with cameras and equipment for 90 days and end the speculation once and for all if they have nothing to hide. It's frustrating.

    But, I would like to see the copies when you post them.

  18. #57

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    They didn't seal it to keep you from bringing out the gold. Doc Noss took care of that in 1939 when he blew the living daylights out of the shaft trying to expand it. Of course, it collapsed instead, and the chambers in which the caches are hidden have thus been sealed for almost 70 years.

    The reason the Army sealed all of the entrances was to keep pesky treasure hunters out of the range. By putting impenetrable doors over the known entrances to the caves they reasoned, potential treasure hunters would be discouraged. Unfortunately, this resulted in a massive conspiracy theory in which the Army somehow removed all of the gold and gave it to LBJ, the CIA, or some other nefarious group. I don't believe any of that is true, but it is possible, at least in theory.

  19. #58
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,488
    601 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Quote Originally Posted by TaxLawyer
    I just received a very rare copy of the official Army records relating to the Victorio Peak mine. My first thought was "Wow, how did he get his hands on this," followed by "Wow, this looks exactly like the documents I saw as a JAG officer at WSMR," followed by "WOW, THIS CONFIRMS MY LOCATION THEORY...". Check out the page that I posted at http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,69096.0.html - neat stuff. The documents also corroborated my long held beliefs as to why neither the government nor the various claimants to the treasure has yet found the lost caches out there in the desert. Enjoy...
    A friend whose family has been directly involved with Victorio Peak since the Noss days sent me the following appraisel of your document:

    The redetereo actualy reads like this

    ENTER THE CANYON OF THE SOLEDAD
    FIND THE SPRING THERE
    THIS IS THE FIRST WATER OF THE SOLEDAD
    AND RUNS OFF INTO THE PLAIN BELOW

    anyway, if these gooks think that letter applies to Vickey Peak they're full of s___ (sic)

    That letter is directing you into Filmore canyon and the treasure is LOOOOONG gone from there

    Tillie Teijas of Tula Rosa had the Original Letter
    Her BOYFRIEND ( Vehil ) STOLE IT FROM HER
    THEN, he sold it to a guy from El Paso.
    Frank Foss was the buyer

    copies have floated for years, ever since the "40"s


    A difference of opinion it seems. To all: be careful how you spend your hard-earned money.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  20. #59

    Apr 2003
    Silver City, NM USA
    Goldbug2
    37
    1 times

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Winter Research

    This winter I thought I'd start putting a few of my files online (have quite a few I'd like to put up).

    Even though it is pretty much a dead end anymore, I thought you guys might enjoy my

    Victorio Peak Database

    http://www.salars.net/treasure-hunti...-database.html

    I'm putting most of the names, places, etc in Wiki form - it's nice because it allows you to add categories like years, etc and you can see how one event may have influenced another.

    (feel free to contribute any info you have by becoming a registered member of the wiki or add a treasure story if you'd like to my treasure hunting category of the site)

    Wiki: http://www.salars.net/mediawiki/inde...in&type=signup

    Submit Legends: http://www.salars.net/register/


    Looks like warmer weather is finally showing up and maybe I can get out again, but I've always considered research to be the bread and butter of any good hunter.

  21. #60

    Jan 2007
    64

    Re: What are the current theories?

    Good advice, Springfield. There have been con artists of every description since Noss and even before who have preyed on Treasure Hunters.

    Your friend’s interpretation is interesting, but I ran it by the Executive Search Committee, and they are fairly certain it is a different map. There is no reference in our map to any “first water”, nor is there a second reference to the name Soledad. In addition, our reference to Soledad is not to the canyon of Soledad, but to the “sierra” of Soledad.

    As your friend probably already knows, “`Soledad’ was the former name of Victorio Peak.” – from http://www.theoutlaws.com/gold7.htm.

    It seems he is fairly certain that this “Soledad” is not Victorio Peak. Our group believes that it is more likely to be a location other than Victorio Peak, but we have an alternate theory that the location is very close to Victorio Peak. In addition, we are not looking at Filmore canyon at all.

    We would definitely be interested in hearing more from your friend, especially if he has a copy of any of the maps that were so plentiful. If our map is not an original and unique copy, we want to know that immediately. PM me if your friend wants to exchange some information – if he has a copy of the map that he says is the same as ours, he can fax it to me or scan and e-mail it for comparison.

    We were especially intrigued by your friend’s account of the letter, how it was stolen, etc. I find the story very believable because it has all the makings of a scam. Con artists know that if they draw you into something illegal, you won’t tell the police once you are ripped off. So they give you the impression that the letter is “hot”, and because you know you are accepting stolen goods, you won’t complain after handing over your money.

    If your friend was involved with any of the various missions targeting Victorio Peak since the Noss days, he or she can certainly testify as to the quantity and quality of con artists and scammers that took money from investors. Your friend is especially welcome to come to our meeting in El Paso if he or she would like to contribute to the discussion or share some insights. There is no mandatory donation, although we will accept donations to cover the cost of the event, and in exchange for the donations we will raffle off a piece of artwork (see below) that includes some great Treasure Hunting finds.
    Click image for larger version. 

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