florida group trying to get permit to remove Doc Noss Gold

[monkeymann]

So does anyone have an Update on if these guys have "Actually" found anything in the cave they posted pictures of?

It really does sound very much like the Victorio Peak story. I truly wonder if this is in deed the cave that Doc Noss found, and that may be he "Did" come up with an elaborate scheme that involved using Victorio Peak as a "Patsy" so to speak, for where the gold was "Supposedly" originally found? I don't think that it would be too much of a far fetched angle for Doc Noss to have come up with to both keep anyone from stealing his gold, as well as give him a way to "Go Public" with it. However, the problem with this story is that if that were the case, then that doesn't explain why his relatives were so hell bent on excavating Victorio Peak, Unless no one, but no one "Really" knew the whole story except for Doc Noss!??

 

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[JamesFariello]

Most of the area in the Caballo is safe. I think some folks in the area of TorC might become very upset if someone went treasure hunting in an area they are working. God forbid if you found something they had been looking for. Some of them would take it from you as they might feel it was theirs as they spent so much time looking for it. Most folks are very nice and that 1% of the people are what anyone might be fearful of.

Yes the southern part of NM and AZ are areas to avoid. I have property in Columbus NM and stay away from it as it is 3 miles from Mexico. The area is very unsafe and anything below I-10 needs to be evaluated by you before going south. The last time I was in the booth area of NM it was pretty safe. I would think twice before going there at this time.

I am a retired cop and being armed to the teeth is a 44 mag hand gun and 44 mag rifle with a 22 mag snake shot handgun. I hope I didn't scare you. If you enter the Caballo Mountains you better have a good snake gun as you will come across them every time you enter that area. Go on youtube and enter Caballo and you will see what the area is like and what is going on with treasure hunting in that area. It is very interesting to see those that hunt for lost treasure and who knows, they might just find it.
If you are in the Caballo and see a green RZR and a old man with a white haired fuzzy face, say hi, it might be me. If you go into the Cabal lo one thing, BE PREPARED for any emergency. Your cell phone may work or might not. WATER, WATER and more WATER. Have fun and again for the most part it is safe for families, just be careful as the area is remote. javascript:void(0);

 

[diggemall]

tag

 

[gollum]

What Doc Noss found was indeed under Victorio Peak. No reason for he and the rest of his family to have been fighting Uncle Sam from 1937 until present if that was not the case.

I personally spoke with the man who wrote the article about Doc Noss and Victorio Peak. He lived with the family for several months while writing the article. He interviewed family and friends who helped pull a lot of the bars and such out to hide in separate caches. I also firmly believe that anything that may have been under Victorio Peak has long since been removed by our government.

The Caballo Mountains was along a very well traveled route for the Colonial Spanish and Jesuits. I don't doubt that there are several caches hidden in those mountains. I know someone who found a 4ft tall Iron Crucifix there that sits in his house to this day.

Best of luck and Happy New Year-Mike

 

[Springfield]

Well no matter what! One thing is for certain William Floto had claimed over an active claim. Tres Oro is the claim name staked on
12-20-2006 and filed on 03-29-07 Mr Floto claimed the Dream On claim on 05-29-07 & filed on 08-24-2007.
and then another claim was filed named Quest 1 on 08-18-2009 By a Randy Collandra I guess another member from the group.
At any rate we have a request in for a contact # for the group because we own the Tres Oro claim and it appears SOME ONE HAS BEEN WORKING IT! I am sure it was an honest mistake we had heard there were people out there but wasn't to concerned about it. it's not like someone would be able to get anything with out a great amount of work . This is why nothing has been removed.

Overstaking is a long standing tradition in the mining game. If the claims have any value, the matter is often settled in court or by a compromise of some sort. Even if your paper trail is immaculate, you still have to deal with it.

 

[sfloto]

After getting some emails I decided to visit this thread

First to gollum White Sands wasn't created until 1945 Why 1937 People will believe what they want. I tried to give as much facts as I had (pictures, Links, Names and locations) You give us "the man" who wrote "the article" and "interviewed family and friends". Where are the facts? Authors name Name of Article names of people interviewed You are certainly allowed your opinion but lets separate opinion from BS

Now to Colorado I phoned your partner Don Snodgrass (I cannot say for absolute, this is who he claimed to be) You have a lode mining claim The persons "working your claim" are treasure hunters and by the letter of the law NOT violating your claim (maybe a dozen other laws) and if you are filing mining claims to search for treasure you are breaking the law (like my brother and group including R. Collandra) If you are just mining then you have no issues with these treasure hunters.

SFloto

 

[gollum]

Simple,

Read the articles by Tom Whittle. While researching the article, he lived with the Noss Family and was privvy to much information and many pictures that have not previously been shared with the public. Tom is in the process of writing a book on the subject, and does not give out a lot of information that is not already public knowledge.

http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol18I10/index.htm

I used the date of 1937 because that was when Noss first found the upper entrance to his shaft during a rainstorm, so that was the date his struggle began. I should have been more specific, sorry.



Colorado,

floto is correct. If you have a mining claim, and are mining on it, then you are within the law. If you have a mining claim and are digging for treasure on it (without filing for a Treasure Trove Permit), then you are breaking the law. Just because a person has a legal MINING CLAIM on a piece of land, doesn't mean that the GSA can't grant a Treasure Trove Permit for the same land. Mining is not Treasure Hunting in the eyes of the government.

Best-Mike

 

[waternhole]

AMUSING, So you believe that old hole is the entrance ehh. I can show you caves from one end of that mountain to the other. Showing me a cave with markings that are garbage, along with resistive games is nothing.

Do you know the laws concerning caves today? I would advise you read up on such.
Got to love this mess of folks in the Caballos.

I like the camera. That it the true nature of belief and paranoid.
Do you know were the cross in the tree is on the back side off from the radio stations? Do you know were the rock not far from the road is that is marked LF BH? How about way down the hill the rock with a mule on it?? Ahh the fun of playing in the Caballos.

I know where the rock with the LF BH is. Do you know what the initials stand for? Do you know where the pole sight holes and direction markers are? Ironically they lead to this site. This site is known as Giegas's (sp) hole. He went down with two other men. Only Giegas lived the other two died of cyanide poisining. They brought out a broken sword and a helmet. The helmet was marked LF, a french helmet.

 

[sfloto]

Gollum You actually spoke with Thomas G Whittle about the Noss Treasure? I have read those articles before, typical treasure lore long on fluff short on documentation.
example
" There were 110 gold bars moved that night, according to an affidavit obtained by this writer and sworn to by Jolley"
(quoted from http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol18I10/index.htm)

I sure hope if he ever publishes that book he includes some of these affidavits Does anyone realize what it would take to move 110 40 lb bars in a single night in 1949? and yet Jolley claims (and swears to) that it happen but what is worst is Whittle reports this as fact. (I am guessing on 40 lb bars)

Lets do the math 110 * 40 = 4400 lbs Handled twice 8800 lbs Two men 4400 lbs each man in one night Come on am I the only one who finds this a little bogus

Now lets look at the value 4400 lbs *14.5833 = 64152 troy oz* 50% purity *$42oz = 1.4 mil dollars in 1949 and this Cowboy just left it there after Noss was killed. when min wage was .40 cents

Now lets look at the fact Noss had $1.4 mil and yet was looking for financial partners (why)

Sorry I got off on a rant here I love a good treasure story but a certain amount of common sense should be used. (with the story I am telling too)

SFloto

 

[sfloto]

To Waternhole Welcome Don Snodgrass (I assume that is you )

"AMUSING, So you believe that old hole is the entrance ehh. I can show you caves from one end of that mountain to the other. Showing me a cave with markings that are garbage, along with resistive games is nothing" Yes . There are caves all over and you have placed mining claims over a few of them I said from the beginning the marking prove nothing The resistive tools we used are the same used to find water and oil They are not nothing.

Do you know were the cross in the tree is on the back side off from the radio stations? Do you know were the rock not far from the road is that is marked LF BH? How about way down the hill the rock with a mule on it?? Ahh the fun of playing in the Caballos. I included Pictures Why dont you do the same I am sure everyone would enjoy seeing them

I know where the rock with the LF BH is. Do you know what the initials stand for? Do you know where the pole sight holes and direction markers are? Ironically they lead to this site. This site is known as Giegas's (sp) hole. He went down with two other men. Only Giegas lived the other two died of cyanide poisining. They brought out a broken sword and a helmet. The helmet was marked LF, a french helmet. I have no idea what LF BH stands for How do you know? Conjecture, guess or what. This story you tell about Giegas when did it happen? If two people died there must be some documentation what was the names of the people who died ..... Let me guess Giegas spoke with you personally and there is no record but you KNOW its true.


Have a good day

SFloto

 

[gollum]

Gollum You actually spoke with Thomas G Whittle about the Noss Treasure? I have read those articles before, typical treasure lore long on fluff short on documentation.
example
" There were 110 gold bars moved that night, according to an affidavit obtained by this writer and sworn to by Jolley"
(quoted from http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol18I10/index.htm)

I sure hope if he ever publishes that book he includes some of these affidavits Does anyone realize what it would take to move 110 40 lb bars in a single night in 1949? and yet Jolley claims (and swears to) that it happen but what is worst is Whittle reports this as fact. (I am guessing on 40 lb bars)

Lets do the math 110 * 40 = 4400 lbs Handled twice 8800 lbs Two men 4400 lbs each man in one night Come on am I the only one who finds this a little bogus

Now lets look at the value 4400 lbs *14.5833 = 64152 troy oz* 50% purity *$42oz = 1.4 mil dollars in 1949 and this Cowboy just left it there after Noss was killed. when min wage was .40 cents

Now lets look at the fact Noss had $1.4 mil and yet was looking for financial partners (why)

Sorry I got off on a rant here I love a good treasure story but a certain amount of common sense should be used. (with the story I am telling too)

SFloto

Yes I did speak to him personally on more than one occasion.

If you read the article, there were two sizes of dore bars. One was just described as 60 pounds, while the other was described as about 2.5 inches by 7 inches long (that's not a 60 pound bar).

I don't know what kind of physical condition you are in, but 110 60 pound bars would not be THAT much of a problem for two men over the course of an entire night (<even twice). I have an idea for you. Why don't you ask someone who works at a UPS Hub, a Truck Freight Warehouse, or a Loading Dock how many large crates they handle daily (HINT: I already know that answer). You also have to remember that they only moved 10 to 20 at a time. Don't get me wrong; it would be tiring, and I would be a sore SOB the next day, but it easily doable.

Now, as far as needing partners, you must be kidding with your comment! Right? Two things:

1. IT WAS ILLEGAL TO PRIVATELY OWN OVER 5OZ OF GOLD FROM 1933 UNTIL 1978! Do you really think he could have kept that a secret? Think about US History. 1937 was in the middle of the Great Depression. Rural New Mexico was about as poor as it got. If Doc showed up with ANY appreciable amount of gold, he would have been followed EVERYWHERE he went 24/7. At the time, only prospectors could possess raw ore or nuggets only as long as it took to sell them.

2. With ANY find of great value, there will ALWAYS be people coming out of the woodwork claiming the treasure is rightfully theirs. Their great great great great grandpappy was with Padre LaRue, so he deserves the gold. So, when you have idiots making claims, EVERY BIT of the gold is tied up in legal battles for years (just ask Taffi Fisher about her dad and the Atocha). With all the treasure locked away, you need partners with money to pay for attorneys fees, incidentals, etc. See floto, there's a lot more to Treasure Hunting than all the time spent looking for it.

If you are serious about it, you should be ready for many different situations before you ever set foot in the desert or mountains. Talk to people (like Taffi Fisher) to find HONEST ATTORNEYS (oxymoron I know). Find people you can trust that have a lot of fluid wealth (this is the most difficult part). People with a lot of money usually got that way by being greedy. When presented with tons of gold, they may not be as trustworthy as you originally thought. The attorneys are for if you want to recover your cache legally (you will have to fight Uncle Sam EVERY inch of the way). The wealthy friend is for if your cache is small enough that you can quickly sell it under the table. What to do with the cash is a whole 'nother problem.

Best-Mike

 

[sfloto]

Let me understand you want to compare moving boxes with a forklift in a warehouse to removing gold bars form a mine by hand

Why say "(HINT: I already know that answer). " why not just say the answer and your source
If Doc showed up with ANY appreciable amount of gold, he would have been followed EVERYWHERE he went 24/7
This is why I feel the whole Victorio peak was a ruse and yet in some of the stories have him selling a couple bars
See floto, there's a lot more to Treasure Hunting than all the time spent looking for it.
By this you are saying you have already found a big treasure

If you are serious about it, you should be ready for many different situations before you ever set foot in the desert or mountains
Let me set the record strait Treasure hunting was a hobby in which I could get some fresh air, exercise and out from behind a computer monitor I feel 99.9% of treasure stories are completely bogus but that doesn't mean I cant enjoy hiking the mountains of NM or scuba diving the waters of the gulf of Mexico. But the idea of profiting from treasure hunting is stupid, Buy a lottery ticket at least the odds are posted. I have watched Treasure Hunting wipe my brother out financially and yes people do get lucky but I don't base my future on a lottery win.


SFloto

 

[gollum]

Let me understand you want to compare moving boxes with a forklift in a warehouse to removing gold bars form a mine by hand

Why say "(HINT: I already know that answer). " why not just say the answer and your source
If Doc showed up with ANY appreciable amount of gold, he would have been followed EVERYWHERE he went 24/7
This is why I feel the whole Victorio peak was a ruse and yet in some of the stories have him selling a couple bars
See floto, there's a lot more to Treasure Hunting than all the time spent looking for it.
By this you are saying you have already found a big treasure

If you are serious about it, you should be ready for many different situations before you ever set foot in the desert or mountains
Let me set the record strait Treasure hunting was a hobby in which I could get some fresh air, exercise and out from behind a computer monitor I feel 99.9% of treasure stories are completely bogus but that doesn't mean I cant enjoy hiking the mountains of NM or scuba diving the waters of the gulf of Mexico. But the idea of profiting from treasure hunting is stupid, Buy a lottery ticket at least the odds are posted. I have watched Treasure Hunting wipe my brother out financially and yes people do get lucky but I don't base my future on a lottery win.


SFloto

AAAHHHH!

So you fly your true colors. Your numbers are not exactly correct. I put the COMPLETELY BOGUS stories at about 40-50%. The biggest problem with Treasure Stories is that they have been told and retold so many times that many "facts" in them change and get omitted. Sometimes just as a result of the retelling, and sometimes changed by people trying to obfuscate the real facts to keep people away from where they are looking.

The biggest I have found personally was a cache of Spanish gold and silver coins (about $20K), but I personally know several people who will never have to work again due to finds in the Southwest United States (everything from bars to coins). My avatar is a pic of one bar that was part of an 82 pound cache of gold bars a friend of mine from Tucson found in 1986.

If that is your reason for doing this, then why use the term "Treasure Hunting?" Don't get me wrong; it's as good as reason as any for getting to enjoy the great outdoors, and I highly recommend it. If you really think that treasure stories are bogus, then why don't you say "I'm going birdwatching or whatever?" I'm not here to convince you as to the validity of any treasure stories. I am just saying that I know for an unequivocal fact that land treasures exist to this day, and the only reason they are still unfound is because they lie hidden in places where people just don't go.

I know people from all walks of life. I know people that sit behind a desk every day, and I know people that move boxes (not with a forklift). And from personal experience. While helping a friend build a road through some very rough mountains in Southern Arizona, we moved hundreds and hundreds of rocks day after day that weighed from 5 pounds to over a hundred (I'm 6'4" and 275lbs).

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

May I Mike? one mule load of 8 of a stolen conducta (mule train of 8 Reales) in Old Mexico. Enjoy Sfloto, treasures really do exist as Mike says. I recovered this in the 1960's.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[sfloto]

I am not sure if I am not making my self clear or you guys don't read carefully
Treasure exists 99.9 % of treasure stories are bogus
To real de tayopa congratulation that was 50 years ago, would you go to a Financial planner who said "hey I made a killing in the stock market in the 1960s" you guys seem to want to make me out as a non believer I find treasure hunting enjoyable but I made my money in real estate and software. Take a look at the Forbes 400 any treasure hunters listed.
When my girls get older I will try to get them to intrested I have a site in Arkansas that I will hunt next.
Of the three people I have met that found treasure Two found it by accident the last would not tell me. none are rich
Of the many treasure hunters I have met most scrape by and die broke and still fantasizing.
Tell me real de toyopa did you follow a story or was it research and luck
If you want to know what type of treasure hunting I am doing now OMEX NASDAQ I buy around 1.35 wait for some strike sell at $1 profit per share and wait for these poor guys to get screwed out of another find

SFloto

 

[gollum]

HAHAHA,

I live in the real world also. I am in the car business. I did well for a long time with Dell Options, as it would swing 19-30 dollars a day and back (very volatile at the time). Just because I live in the real world is no excuse not to take this hobby seriously (and by seriously I mean have people lined up who would be in positions to give immediate assistance when something interesting happens). They're not just associates, they are friends as well.

I still disagree with your 99.9%, and say that the real numbers are around 40-50% BS. I have researched a lot of different stories and found real names, places, and money. In many cases, the money had been recovered long ago. If you read Frank Fish's Book, I can tell you that he recovered three or four of the caches he wrote about.

My Spanish coin cache was found after years of research into Spanish monuments and markers, putting leather on the ground, following trails that lead to an interesting day.

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

But the idea of profiting from treasure hunting is stupid, Buy a lottery ticket at least the odds are posted.

Sorry. Not quite. There are lots of different kinds of treasure out there that can greatly supplement an income (precious stones, minerals, fossils, etc). I tried to learn as much as I could about everything I might come across in the deserts and mountains that could make me money. I know the locations of a mastodon skeleton and a fossil dinosaur skull. They are unrecoverable at the time, but I know where they are.

If you don't know what different colors silver takes on in different media, or mercury, or even gold for that matter (in sulphides for instance), you may walk right past something quite valuable while looking for a specific cave or shaft.

There is a learning curve (especially for Spanish Monuments and markers). At first, every rock just has to be a marker. Then you get to stage 2 where you discount many things you shouldn't. Hopefully you don't get bogged down in either Stage 1 or 2 (many people on this forum have done just that, and they waste much time and money), and make it to Stage 3, where you attain that balance between right brain and left brain.

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

I'll even show you a pic of the dino skull. It is about seven feet long. I haven't excavated anything around it, as I may eventually show it to an archaeologist.

Best-Mike

 

[Springfield]

I'll even show you a pic of the dino skull. It is about seven feet long. I haven't excavated anything around it, as I may eventually show it to an archaeologist.

Best-Mike

Are you sure it's not a carved Jesuit Treasure Sign? Haha - just kidding. Great find.

 

[gollum]

You joke, but what attracted my attention was that cut in the snout. From a distance, it is an almost perfect cross. When I got a little closer, I saw the teeth and eye socket.

Best-Mike