1697 Susan Swan Wampum Bag

[GoDeep]

Ty he was hoping to get around 250,000

Hoping?! A antiquity of this significance and you haven't had it professionally appraised yet?

 

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[Red-Coat]

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You are correct, it isn't in the same league (if its actually even for sale), it's likely the only (mostly intact) one whereas there are an estimated 100+ of the blankets.

Edit: actually, having now read the the link you provided, Yes, it's had some repairs and alterations, but it's rare, much rarer (and older) then any of the 1800's blankets being sold. I don't doubt that sold to the right collector it could be worth 7 figures.

Some full color pictures would be nice and i'm waiting on those from the OP.

We can debate it's "value" until the cows come home, the truth is, no one can know until it actually goes up for auction and sells. The blanket that went for 1.8 million was originally only estimated to fetch around 200,000, but you get a few wealthy private collectors bidding against each other and things can go up real quick!

Ty he was hoping to get around 250,000

View attachment 1945371

Who knows what it could fetch? You need to get it professionally appraised. Even then, as GoDeep says, it only takes two collectors who are determined to have it and the hammer price at auction can get forced up. That's also why it would benefit from a specialist auction supported by pre-auction advertising, as I have already said.

The picture you posted is just the cover of the museum bulletin to which I already provided a link and is no better than the images within the bulletin itself. Worse, actually.

However, it's not a comparable artefact to the $1.8 million Navajo blanket. 'Old' and 'rare' are not in themselves reliable indicators of value and Navajo blankets of that type are valued for special reasons. They were rare artefacts in their own time and almost exclusively made for Chiefs. They're culturally important, impressive display items, and desired as much by art collectors as by archaeology collectors. More so, in fact.

 

[GoDeep]

However, it's not a comparable artefact to the $1.8 million Navajo blanket. 'Old' and 'rare' are not in themselves reliable indicators of value and Navajo blankets of that type are valued for special reasons. They were rare artefacts in their own time and almost exclusively made for Chiefs. They're culturally important, impressive display items, and desired as much by art collectors as by archaeology collectors. More so, in fact.

Of course it's not comparable, it's the only one known to exist in this condition so neither you, nor I, can gauge it's value based off the blankets. What you describe of the blankets, is true, but those descriptions, could just as well be fitting of this artifact to the right collectors: "culturally important, impressive display, and desired as much by art collectors as archaeology collectors"

Neither of us are North American Artifact appraisers and even an appraiser of something this rare would ascribe a wide valuation on it as so much can depend upon the current auction atmosphere. Until he posts up an appraisal and it goes to auction, we won't have an answer to this.

Also, to be clear, when i said it may be worth millions, it may be, but that wasn't based on any appraisal, it was an ad hoc valuation to emphasize the absurdity of having a friend representing the family in it's sale.

 

[deadrabbit]

This is it for pictures? I get it now. We're all being punked...

Likely an existing member creating a burner account to play with us....seen that one too many times!

I mean think about it, have you ever seen a antiquities or art dealer selling "priceless" items squabbling with detractors about respect, counseling and xanax? No, they are professional and to the point.

I am not an existing member and I am not punking anyone. I am a long time friend of the owner who knows more about the internet then he does. I have been friends with the owner for over 25 years. The basket is now located at the history museum in albany n.y. and had been in their hands since 1993. I just thought I could get some thoughts on the item and was unaware that people with the knowledge were so unwilling to share without harassment. Sorry you guys are so synical.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Gentlemen, post by our rules!!!

deadrabbit is not trying to sell it here he simply asking what some thought it might be worth, he does not need to provide any credentials and contact info.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Gentlemen, post by our rules!!!

deadrabbit is not trying to sell it here he simply asking what some thought it might be worth, he does not need to provide any credentials and contact info.

Yo!

 

[GoDeep]

I am not an existing member and I am not punking anyone. I am a long time friend of the owner who knows more about the internet then he does. I have been friends with the owner for over 25 years. The basket is now located at the history museum in albany n.y. and had been in their hands since 1993. I just thought I could get some thoughts on the item and was unaware that people with the knowledge were so unwilling to share without harassment. Sorry you guys are so synical.

Fair enough, to get an valuation, to even start, we need photo's. Can you please share your photo's of it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I see everyone's IPs, please leave the moderation to moderators, if members suspect there is an issue report it, do not attack member..

 

[crashbandicoot]

Yo!

 

[smokeythecat]

You will need a professional appraisal. There are numerous auction and antiques companies across the country who can do it. It will cost you. Anything you get from us is just guesswork, and it will come down to who really wants it. It only takes 2 people to make an auction work. If you only get 1, it may not be a happy ending.

 

[Red-Coat]

You will need a professional appraisal. There are numerous auction and antiques companies across the country who can do it. It will cost you. Anything you get from us is just guesswork, and it will come down to who really wants it. It only takes 2 people to make an auction work. If you only get 1, it may not be a happy ending.

Most large auction houses have a sale valuation service, with the appraisal offered for free and without obligation. For specialist and high value items, they might undertake a more thorough appraisal to help set a higher pre-auction estimate (at least, if you commit to selling the item) but often that's for free too. They generally recoup their costs from the higher amount of commission they get if the hammer price is higher.

 

[smokeythecat]

Yes, expect a 20% commission.

 

[GoDeep]

Any update on posting some actual close up color pictures of it that show the intricacy and colors of it?

 

[crashbandicoot]

This is strange.very strange!

 

[crashbandicoot]

I love a mystery and by damn this is sure one!

 

[smokeythecat]

No, not a mystery, a waste of time. Moving on...

 

[deadrabbit]

Truly a waste of time,but a mystery nonetheless!Who is this strange person purporting to have a rare possibly priceless artifact.No pictures,bad attitude.Probably not even the Shadow knows,is he lurking right now,to see if any one cares.A mystery indeed,but also a waste of time,I too am outta here.Unless!

Why would I post anything more when all I'm getting is negativity

 

[Red-Coat]

Why would I post anything more when all I'm getting is negativity

With respect, I think that posting some colour pictures of the item as it is now would serve two purposes. It would satisfy some natural curiosity about the bag, and might dampen down some of the scepticism being expressed.

However, also with respect, I don't think that seeing some decent colour pictures is going to enable anyone here to give you a valuation. In my opinion it's a specialised item of sufficient rarity that you need a specialist to give an opinion.

As i said, a leading auction house with an appropriate expert should be able to give you that for free and without obligation. Even then, they can't predict an upper estimate based on the possibility of two determined collectors bidding against one another but they have the capability (via pre-auction advertising) to maximise the chances of that sort of scenario.

As already pointed out, the downside of engaging their services to sell for you (which should not be a condition of requesting a valuation) is that they will want their cut. The scale of fees usually depends on the hammer price achieved (the percentage usually drops incrementally as the hammer price rises) but will likely be somewhere in the region of 20-25% for this item. Some auction houses offer a better deal for their online-only auctions versus auctions conducted in a brick & mortar saleroom. It pays to shop around if that's the route you want to go, and it makes sense to get multiple valuations by contacting more than one auction house.

 

[Doubter in MD]

Why would I post anything more when all I'm getting is negativity

I'd like to point out that you have gotten a LOT of good feedback from many contributors here.

We would love to see photos of the bag for the reasons mentioned previously, but you already have your answer regarding value. To recap:

Your item is unique and any attempt to provide you with a value is a wild-a$$-guess. Your best bet is probably an auction house, both for the appraisal and for the sale. Good luck to your friend.

 

[GoDeep]

I contacted Gwendolyn Saul, PhD, Curator of Ethnography and Ethnology at the New York State Museum where they confirmed the Swan Bag resides. They indicated it is not for sale and is not currently on public display but is available for study and observation by appointment.

I think that answers many of our questions.