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Thread: treasure beach find

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  1. #31
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,459
    2564 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: treasure beach find

    Floater,? Thanks for the tip.? I could find no known wreck in 1844 or 1744. Any help would be appreciated. Maybe Cornelius.
    There were thousands of Halls living in Barbados, Bahamas, and Jamaica. Apparently a very popular name. Even in 1644.
    This should not be that hard to construct a timeline of when and where. We have the exact date to the month and day of the month. ( but what century?)? We know it's English. But I need HELP.?
    Anything would be appreciated.

    Floater, did I meet you on Colored Beach months ago when I showed you a brass spike I found further North?

  2. #32
    Floater

    Re: treasure beach find

    No we have never met BigCypress. I have never been to Colored Beach or any of the Treasure coast beaches Except Coco and Daytona in the 70,s I didnt relize you lived here in Ft Lauderdale. Im sending you a PM. The only thing about the Name Tag being that old is that the Back of it with the G-1506 seems like a 20th century mark. 1900's. I thought about it and I do feel it is from the 1940,s HH

  3. #33
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,459
    2564 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: treasure beach find

    I thought the same thing when I first found it. If what you say is true, (from the 1940's), then it should be easy to check birth and hospital records to make a positive ID. When I found it, the face side was heavily encrusted with I guess coral, (the same stuff on the tip of 1715 spike, from original pic, found together) and I could only read one side with the G-1506. The other side was completely covered. I originally thought it was a junk galvanized meter tag and gave it away to a friend for giving me a ride to the Treasure beaches. He was curious, drunk, and thinking that it might say "Boone's Farm" or something from a wine bottle, one night he sanded the unknown side with sandpaper! After he realized it may be worth something, he gave it to a diver friend who mailed it to someone who mailed it out of town, who mailed it back and said it was indeed an old infant female grave marker for a coffin box on a ship Row-G/ aisle 15 area #6, but he ruined it by sanding it. Well this is all too much and nothing verified. I took it back and with nothing to lose I polished it with silver polish which took the scratches out and gives it the shiny look it has today. I learned how to use a computer and found this forum which I thought was my best bet for identification. Now you know the whole story.
    I cannot get a better picture but the G-1506 is crude and not exactly straight or modern print. If anyone can prove it's only 60 years old of course I would accept it. But I don't think so and I hope others who can help do not lose interest.
    Thank You

  4. #34

    Jan 2005
    Florida East Coast
    73

    Re: treasure beach find

    Just to let you know, when I originally read your post, I was so intrigued that I spent nearly an hour researching the name/date/etc. just about every way you could imagine. No success.

    Good Luck and HH,
    BobJ
    ClamBob aka He Who Raises Clams...If it looks like a clam, eat it.

  5. #35
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,459
    2564 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: treasure beach find

    Bob, I appreciate your help. I also have become intrigued. I believe there is a story behind this. If it was WWII era (1943-44) I would think it would be easy to find birth records for JoAnn L. Hall. But I cannot.
    The people I meet are either very interested or not at all. Many people have told me it's modern junk, the museum guard told me it's too shiny to be old, another told me the item says 1944 (which it does not)... we originally thought the name was To:Ann LiKull, I have had many discouragements but I will continue to insist that it may have some historical significance until proven otherwise....Who knows, it may help ID a British or pirate shipwreck.
    Thanks again,
    Bigcypresshunter.

  6. #36
    Floater

    Re: treasure beach find

    BigCypress,By no means did I intend to discourage you at all. I would agree that it may be easier to locate someone from the 1940s vs the !800 time frame but please keep in mind that there were no computers back then and at best records of birth and death certificates were issued by local goverments. A child that young would have no Soc. Sec. # If the person was a resident of lets say Brevard county then a search at the local courthouse might work for you. I dont think they have death certificates online that far back unless they did input all the archives. I still think it is a great find and wish you the best reaching for your conclusions. HH

  7. #37
    us
    Jul 2005
    N Louisiana
    Ace 250
    2,278
    28 times

    Re: treasure beach find

    Actually, birth and death records from the 1800s are plentiful, but not in the government archives. These happenings were recorded in family Bibles and written histories or journals. Land records (sales and titles) were meticulous, but alas were burned when courthouses burned. The birth and death of a child would only have been recorded in a family momento, such as the Bible. Or the tale passed on from one generation to another. This is where genealogy records come in, and programs such as Ancestry.com. The mormons have a wealth of knowledge stored in Salt Lake City, but it is accessible to the general public. I find the ancestry.com lead to be promising, but not positive proof. Continued efforts to locate the poster of that information might yield more answers. "Where did she get this information" is a good beginning if she is ever located (the posters are almost always women).

    The birth and death of a baby in the mid-1800s would have been a quiet happening to the general public. It happened every day. What makes this particular one known is the small tag found with her name and dates on it. Do not look to find information on her in a public record (government), especially if she was born and buried at sea, unless you happen to get lucky and find the ship's record books in some historical organization.

    In my small town in Louisiana, birth and death records began to be kept only in the early 1900s, even though the area had been settled for almost a century. The newspaper began about the same time. Earlier records are very sketchy. People buried their dead in their own backyards and fields. It was not a government-controlled activity as it is now. In my genealogy efforts, I still scour fields for graves of distant relatives, one of which was "marked with a bed post."

    I still find this very intriguing. Even if you never learn more, you know that she existed and when, if not where.

    NOODLE
    Dear Lord, lest I continue in my complacent ways, help me to remember that someone died for me today. And if there be war, help me to remember to ask and to answer "am I worth dying for?" - Eleanor Roosevelt

  8. #38

    Jan 2005
    Florida East Coast
    73

    Re: treasure beach find

    Give the internet another ten years and it will be easy to look up these records...just not all digitized yet. But it will be. Look how far the net has come in the last ten years.

    Still, I am almost as amazed by what can be researched as I am by what can not.

    HH,
    BobJ
    ClamBob aka He Who Raises Clams...If it looks like a clam, eat it.

  9. #39

    Mar 2005
    16
    1 times

    Re: treasure beach find

    What an intriguing find! I have been thinking about the brad or spike shown with the medallion ( I like medallion rather than tag). If the spike and medallion are connected in fact, then I think that the 20th century is out, because fasteners from 1944 just don't look that primitive.

    The genealogy of Jo Anne Hall is interesting, and might be right on (- re: reference at RootsWeb.com) and the fact that this Jo Anne's parents were over 40 certainly would make survival at childbirth a risky business....especially in 1843. Surviving birth for only 3 days probably lets out contraction of any post partum disease, since any quick - spreading pestilence such as cholera, typhoid, diptheria, would have a longer incubation period. However, if a stranded company of pilgrims was fearful of disease, i.e. the baby drowned in a December storm and shipwreck, they may have had a funeral pyre. A coffin would of course account for the spike, and the medallion could have been hung around the neck of the baby. All is speculation.....

    Boardwalker.

  10. #40
    older than bedrock

    Sep 2005
    California
    242
    6 times

    Re: treasure beach find

    BUT- on the other item in the 2nd photo the long square pin, appears to be a "woodriff key" square, tapered front, used on shafts to lock and turn an object, ie: propeller shft to propeller.
    Love those "Rattlers" -----PAN Rattlers---- NUGGETS

  11. #41

    Mar 2005
    16
    1 times

    Re: treasure beach find

    Beeper - I don't think that item looks much like a Woodruff key. They are either roller shaped pins, or half-moon keys - usually the latter. I can't really tell 100% sure from the picture, but the fastener we are looking at seems to be tapered, which a woodruff key definitely would not be.

    Boardwallker

  12. #42
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,459
    2564 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: treasure beach find

    Thank you beeper and Boardwalker for your thoughts. I have already ID'ed the brass artifact as a broken spike piece. It is tapered and is identical to one in pic. The "Treasure Coast" is an area of many shipwrecks, the most famous in 1715, and spike pieces are a common find on these beaches. This brass piece is probably not connected to the tag, allthough possible. A shipwreck has been discovered 50 feet from shore. I find this wreck so close an interesting coincidence. I wish I would have searched more with my "antique" metal detector and I will, after our next hurricane.
    I don't think Jo Ann L. Hall is the same Jo Anna from Virginia unless they traveled the Carribean. If it was a burial at sea, and not by locals, then she would have been born 3 days away; probably south. How far north or south could a ship travel in 3 days? Does anyone know if sailing ships were commonly used in 1844? I think this is more likely a shipwreck, but where would the coffin be going or coming from? How long would they keep a tiny dead body on board? Also could engraving like this be done onboard a ship? Or would it have to be done in a city in the Carribean?
    And one more question: Does anyone have any information of a wrecked or missing ship in the area in 1844?
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  13. #43

    Mar 2005
    16
    1 times

    Re: treasure beach find

    Hi Bigcypresshunter. Here's my theory......the family of Joanne Hall make the momentous decision to take a business trip to some Caribbean locale, perhaps some trading venture. My guess, given the very strylish english engraving on the medallion, is a British port, such as Port Royal.

    Mr. Hall could have been from Norfolk, or Newport, Virginia, or wherever. In the course of this romantic and adventurous journey, Mrs. Hall, although 41 years of age, becomes with child. In this caribbean port, they find conditions are primitive, and the rate of infant mortality is high, especially for women beyond their ideal childbirth age, and when Mrs. has her baby, she tragically dies three days after birth. They give her the old English name "Joanne" which means "God is gracious".

    The Halls decide to return to Virginia, and to have Joanne buried there. Mr. Hall has the local silversmith engrave a medallion showing Joanne's critical dates of birth and death. She is embalmed? and placed in a coffin, and the Halls book passage on a ship sailing early in January. Two or three weeks into their journey a violent storm wrecks the ship, depositing Joanne's tiny coffin and her remains on shore. 160 years later the very purpose of the medallion placed around her neck, a remembrance of her all too brief little life, is wonderfully fulfilled, and, thanks to your search the circle is finally closed. That's my theory.
    Boardwalker

    Boardwalker

  14. #44

    Mar 2005
    Minelab Explorer SE/Garrett GTI 2500/ Ace 250
    6,871
    49 times

    Re: treasure beach find


    if this tag is associated with a shipwreck,the one place that comes to mind that may be able to provide info is the DISCOVERY SHIPWRECK MUSEUM in FENWICK ISLAND DE. maybe you could send a photo to them and get their opinon? the address is
    708 OCEAN HIGHWAY
    FENWICK DELAWARE
    19944

    the phone is 302-539-9366 or toll free at 1-888-743-5524
    their e-mail is dsmuseum@aol.com
    i have also included a link to thier website. this is a fascinating story,and it may be the last remaining item that the world has to remember this little girl by.i really hope you can find out some info.
    heres the link
    http://www.discoversea.com/Homex.html
    GTI 2500/ACE 250

  15. #45
    joetoffton

    Re: treasure beach find

    Silver is a relitively soft metal; Had this been washing around in the ocean the engraving would be worn and the silver would be oxidized to a nice BLACK. and it would be encrusted. Salt water takes it's toll on silver. Therefore if it was burial at sea it would be black,
    encrusted and engraving worn I would say it is no more than 1944.


    Joe

 

 
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