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Thread: Great Seal Button Backmarks Help

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  1. #1
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Great Seal Button Backmarks Help

    I am assembling a list of US Army Great Seal button backmarks 1902-present.. This seems to be the most complete list available anywhere. With the help of TN members, I am occasionally adding and improving upon it. So far I have over 100 different backmarks. Anyone with a Great Seal button backmark or backmark variation not listed please post the pic and Ill add it. The thread is already so long its not necessary to add anything already pictured. Thanks.

    This is how it all started:



    I bought 2 bags of small Great Seal of US buttons for a buck at a flea market. Can someone help me date these backmarks? I believe they are all post 1902. I cant find anything else online.

    1- Top row SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
    2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
    3- Bottom CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.
    4- WATERBURY BUTTON CO.
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  3. #2
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    Re: Button Date Help

    no replies?


    My City Button Works may be WWI but the Scovills have me confused. According to internet research, this backmark is documented as a 1850-1865 production mark.

    http://cgi.ebay.com.my/SCOVILL-Mf-g-...mZ250355537335


    I am pleasantly surprised that these NY buttons may be "rare" WWI and mine are mint.

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=8&gl=us
    http://cgi.ebay.com/WWI-VINTAGE-MILI...09114002r19699

  4. #3
    Charter Member
    nz
    Oct 2006
    New Zealand
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    Re: Button Date Help

    That is a seriously nice haul of buttons. BigCH
    I know so little about buttons, but i'm learning all the time from the learned here on TNet.


    Mike

  5. #4
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by trikikiwi
    That is a seriously nice haul of buttons. BigCH
    I know so little about buttons, but i'm learning all the time from the learned here on TNet.


    Mike
    I figured what the hell for a buck. I thought they were modern and I have been tossing them in the surf to see were they end up in my thixotropic sand movement testing. I didnt know they were old until I noticed the different backmarks. Im still trying to get a date on the Scovills and Waterburys. Somebody here should know.

  6. #5

    Oct 2006
    Madison, Wisconsin
    381
    3 times

    Re: Button Date Help

    wow you could throw a few my way! Instead of wasting em in the surf!
    Now you know zlincolns are better at that test than good buttons.. LOL
    J2
    Hopefully some one with Button knowledge galore will answer you!

    §§ J.J. §§

  7. #6
    us
    Nov 2008
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    Re: Button Date Help

    well, lets see if we can get these ID"D

  8. #7
    us
    Too Lucky

    Aug 2004
    Central, La
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    Re: Button Date Help

    these were used from wwI thru wwII until now. there are afew in the button book but for the most part they are new.

  9. #8
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Cajunme
    these were used from wwI thru wwII until now. there are afew in the button book but for the most part they are new.
    Yes, I realize they are all post 1902. I would like to better date the backmarks. Does your book say anything?

  10. #9
    us
    Photographer

    Feb 2009
    Cinci--just moved to KY
    170

    Re: Button Date Help

    dasalottabuttons
    I just hunted your favorite park.

  11. #10
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Since I started this thread, I have found several other Great Seal button backmarks. Here is a list so far (may have errors)


    1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
    2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
    3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
    4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- (WWI)
    5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1955
    6- US PRODUCTS CORP
    7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO (WWI)
    8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
    9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
    10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
    11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
    12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
    13-ARNSTEIN, SIMON & CO. S.F.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #11
    us
    Jan 2009
    chandler, tx
    whites xlt
    217

    Re: Button Date Help

    Nice find for a buck. HH

  13. #12
    us
    Jul 2006
    All over Texas
    Team Tesoro
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    Re: Button Date Help

    Big, I don't know anything about buttons...but know a good deal when I see one. Abuck?? WOW.

    Rick


    The stuff that dreams are made of.

  14. #13
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    I added a few more to the list of Great Seal Buttons.

    1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
    2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
    3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
    4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- (WWI)
    5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1955
    6- US PRODUCTS CORP
    7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO (WWI)
    8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
    9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
    10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
    11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
    12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
    13- ARNSTEIN SIMON (& CO.) * S.F. *
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  15. #14
    us
    Jul 2007
    Florida
    Minelab, Tesoro
    693
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    BigCypressHunter,

    You may have seen this link already but just in case. It has lots of button backmarks with their dates.

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

    HH!
    -Moe

  16. #15
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe (fl)
    BigCypressHunter,

    You may have seen this link already but just in case. It has lots of button backmarks with their dates.

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

    HH!
    -Moe
    That link does not apply to more modern Great Seal buttons or is in error. If you notice under Scovill I have the same SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY backmark but Great Seal buttons are post 1902.


  17. #16
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Updated list of US Great Seal button backmarks:


    1- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY (back ungilted)
    2- SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY
    3- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *
    4- CITY BUTTON WORKS - N.Y.- (WWI)
    5- CITY BUTTON WORKS- NEW YORK- 1877-1955
    6- US PRODUCTS CORP
    7- R. LIEBMANN MFG CO (WWI)
    8- R.L. MFG Co Newark N.J.
    9- THE AUSTIN CO. PROVIDENCE R.I.
    10- WATERBURY COS INC CONN modern
    11- W W W W (waterbury) modern
    12- D. EVANS CO. ATTLESBORO, MASS. 1902- WWII
    13- ARNSTEIN SIMON (& CO.) * S.F. *
    14- N.S. MEYERS * NEW YORK *
    15- AMERICAN BUTTON CO. *NEWARK N.J.*
    16- AMERICAN EMBLEM CO. UTICA N.Y. (WWI)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #17
    Charter Member
    CANE FIELD BANDITS and IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

    Jun 2006
    Moonlight and Magnolias
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    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcypresshunter
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe (fl)
    BigCypressHunter,

    You may have seen this link already but just in case. It has lots of button backmarks with their dates.

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

    HH!
    -Moe
    That link does not apply to more modern Great Seal buttons or is in error.  If you notice under Scovill I have the same SCOVILL MF'G CO  WATERBURY backmark but Great Seal buttons are post 1902. 
    That backmark was used during the CW, post-CW, Indian Wars, Turn of the Century, early 20th c. ... 

    The deciding factor is the Size of the lettering on the backmark, the presence of one ring or two, or a dotted ring around the shank, etc.  Do you have a copy of Tice's book?  If so, check out the Plates in the beginning of the book.  If not, I'll try to make some time to do a little work on this for you.  Eve though Tice doesn't list buttons made after the CW, in his preliminary remarks about dating buttons, he lists backmarks and rough time frames for the big producers. 

    Waterbury Button Co. is 20th c. for sure...but I'll look up the exact dates later for you. Time to hit the sack...


    -Buckles
    2014 CaneField Bandits Totals:
    Three Seated Half Dimes: 1842-O, 1848-O and 1857
    1876-CC and 1887 Seated Dimes
    1876-S Seated Quarter
    185? Large Cent
    Blacksmith-Forged Picket Pin
    1941 Walking Liberty Half Dollar
    1943, 1954, and 1963-D Quarters
    1945 and 1945-S Mercury Dimes
    1864-L Indian Head Cent
    Dateless Shield Nickel
    Indian Head Cents, Wheats, Buffaloes, and GawGag
    OUR 2013 YEAR-END POST: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/to...-end-post.html
    OUR 2012 YEAR END POST:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/20...ml#post3120940

    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my finds signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

  19. #18
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckleBoy
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcypresshunter
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe (fl)
    BigCypressHunter,

    You may have seen this link already but just in case. It has lots of button backmarks with their dates.

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

    HH!
    -Moe
    That link does not apply to more modern Great Seal buttons or is in error. If you notice under Scovill I have the same SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY backmark but Great Seal buttons are post 1902.
    That backmark was used during the CW, post-CW, Indian Wars, Turn of the Century, early 20th c. ...

    The deciding factor is the Size of the lettering on the backmark, the presence of one ring or two, or a dotted ring around the shank, etc. Do you have a copy of Tice's book? If so, check out the Plates in the beginning of the book. If not, I'll try to make some time to do a little work on this for you. Eve though Tice doesn't list buttons made after the CW, in his preliminary remarks about dating buttons, he lists backmarks and rough time frames for the big producers.

    Waterbury Button Co. is 20th c. for sure...but I'll look up the exact dates later for you. Time to hit the sack...


    -Buckles
    I think it should say 1855- 1965. Possibly a typo.



  20. #19
    Charter Member
    CANE FIELD BANDITS and IRON BRIGADE MEMBER

    Jun 2006
    Moonlight and Magnolias
    Fisher F75, Fisher 1266-X and Tesoro Silver µMax
    14,634
    1706 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (4)
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by bigcypresshunter
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckleBoy
    Quote Originally Posted by bigcypresshunter
    Quote Originally Posted by Moe (fl)
    BigCypressHunter,

    You may have seen this link already but just in case. It has lots of button backmarks with their dates.

    http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

    HH!
    -Moe
    That link does not apply to more modern Great Seal buttons or is in error. If you notice under Scovill I have the same SCOVILL MF'G CO WATERBURY backmark but Great Seal buttons are post 1902.
    That backmark was used during the CW, post-CW, Indian Wars, Turn of the Century, early 20th c. ...

    The deciding factor is the Size of the lettering on the backmark, the presence of one ring or two, or a dotted ring around the shank, etc. Do you have a copy of Tice's book? If so, check out the Plates in the beginning of the book. If not, I'll try to make some time to do a little work on this for you. Eve though Tice doesn't list buttons made after the CW, in his preliminary remarks about dating buttons, he lists backmarks and rough time frames for the big producers.

    Waterbury Button Co. is 20th c. for sure...but I'll look up the exact dates later for you. Time to hit the sack...


    -Buckles
    I think it should say 1855- 1965. Possibly a typo.
    Could be, but I just use the books when I can. I don't trust the net. Again, with that backmark--it's the Size of the letters, and other features that determines the date range.
    2014 CaneField Bandits Totals:
    Three Seated Half Dimes: 1842-O, 1848-O and 1857
    1876-CC and 1887 Seated Dimes
    1876-S Seated Quarter
    185? Large Cent
    Blacksmith-Forged Picket Pin
    1941 Walking Liberty Half Dollar
    1943, 1954, and 1963-D Quarters
    1945 and 1945-S Mercury Dimes
    1864-L Indian Head Cent
    Dateless Shield Nickel
    Indian Head Cents, Wheats, Buffaloes, and GawGag
    OUR 2013 YEAR-END POST: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/to...-end-post.html
    OUR 2012 YEAR END POST:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/20...ml#post3120940

    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my finds signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

  21. #20
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    23,606
    744 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting

    Re: Button Date Help

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckleBoy

    Could be, but I just use the books when I can. I don't trust the net. Again, with that backmark--it's the Size of the letters, and other features that determines the date range.
    ok thanks

 

 
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