sword ID'ed 1902 Army Officer, Any ideas on scabbard?

[Marty-Graw]

picked this sword up at the local flea market....i got it pretty cheap so if it is a repro it won't hurt my feelings.....the scabbard doesn't match this particular sword.....only markings i can find is a "C" or"G" on one side of the blade and on the other looks like an engraved "W" or possibly just scratches and another possible stamped letter...dunno if the pics will show it well enough the sword is 37" overall with blade being 31 3/4" by 7/8" wide slight oval shape.....scabbard is 31" in length.....any info would be great

[Marty-Graw]

more

[Marty-Graw]

scabbard

[ivan salis]

looks like a old wristbreaker model as they used to call em

[Goodyguy]

I like swords and I have collected a few. Yours is very cool and I'm sure someone on here will be expert enough to give you a credible ID. I googled "Wristbreaker sword" and sure enough yours is similar.

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont know if its original or repro. Maybe Ivan can help. http://arms2armor.com/Swords/usswords.htm

[pippinwhitepaws]

here is a link.

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/1902army.htm

interesting piece. american furniture, european blade? the scabbard design is unique.
it will need in hand identification...i have a jap sword with the same scabbard construction design and drag.

[Marty-Graw]

thanks guys...very helpful so far....i also forgot to mention it has a brown wooden grip

[Angelo]

here is a link.

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/1902army.htm

interesting piece. american furniture, european blade? the scabbard design is unique.
it will need in hand identification...i have a jap sword with the same scabbard construction design and drag.

It may be a Derogatory sword.

Tony

[mystic]

I don't know if it is real or repo but it looks like my husband Rapier sword he carries to the Renaissance Faire.

[ivan salis]

a true rapier is very differant type of sword--- long and thin --think of the three musketeers ( only the tip is sharp--- its used in a stabbing "ice pick" forward thurst syle attack )-- for use on the ground

sabers --have a sharp edge along their edge -- for a "slashing" style attack from horse back or for a "slashing or thrust of the tip style attack" if on foot ( mainly the slashing attack was used with a sabre ) calvary sabers tend to have a bit of a curve "built in" to the blades

foot soldiers blades tend to be striaght (uncurved)

now of course any one could and did use any type of blade they liked of course but these were designed and named that way for ordering and ID reasons

yours appears to me to be a "wristbreaker" model hilt -- mated with a blade of a later time frame ( due to the "fuller" or blood groove on the blade)--this was very commonly done to "update the sword"---it appears to be missing the "leather wrapping and twisted wire over lay" that held the leather handle covering in place -- what you see is the wood "under base" thats normally hidden by the leather and wire "handle" wrappings.

[Marty-Graw]

this blade is straight and seems to be double edge....it isnt flat at the hilt like most of the 1902 swords i have looked at since posting this......it is oval shap at the hilt

[ivan salis]

upon farther inspection * please note the the rounded tip end of the hilt guard * model and the "hole" for the leather atrap of the sword retainer * in the guard ---thats the tip off look at the 1902 "army" model (all officers) which has both design elements in it --- they were also used by west point cadets ***

[pippinwhitepaws]

the site i posted states the patton model sword used by west point cadets had a straight blade.

it is a curious sword...i have handled many and do not recognize this one.

[ivan salis]

got it --straight blade --plus the tip off is the hole in the guard for the knotted leather end of the sword retaining strap -- and with the ball tip end on the "guard" -- both design elements are on the * 1902 "ARMY" (ALL OFFICERS) sword *-- look at it up above in the link and you will see the leather tassel in the "hole" in the rear as well as the -ball tip end on the guard -- its a straight bladed model. -- west point cadets used it too.

[Marty-Graw]

thanks guys for all the great info...here is what i found...the dragoon hilt is different from mine.....my hilt is more "solid" and the tip Ivan was talking about is flat on the dragoon and more like a ball on mine

[cheese]

Looks like someone wanted the scabbard to look like it was for a nazi Schutzstaffel (SS) sword. Looks crudely painted though, so I kinda doubt it is one.

Nice find! A nice sword regardless of what kind it is. At least it's not one of those $20 made in china junkers like I seem to be seeing all over the place anymore.

[ivan salis]

while most likely a "real" 1902 model "army" (all officers) sword --it might have been made recently * that pattern of sword pattern is commonly used with "dress uniforms" (officers are "required" to have a sword to go with their "full" dress uniforms ) after leaving the military some officers sell or pawn off their swords or after they pass away their family does --so while it is a 1902 model -- it could be of fairly recent making, --- with the scabbard not matching properly (its not the correct one for it) and with the crude SS markings might have been a very crude attempt at a "con" job --that no sane person would fall for. -- Ivan

[dozer dan]

just my wag, im sure its the wrong time frame, but do i see a german SS marking on it?

[ivan salis]

painted on bs "ss" markings