"Hortsmann Bro & Co Phila" Can anyone date this backmark?

[DirtyMike]

The a in Phila is underlined and is capitalized. Also there is a dot befor the "H" in Hortsmann and after "a" in Phila (just one dot between).

[Likely Guy]

Without a photo?!

My guess is a backmark on a button from "Hortsmann Brothers and Allen of New York" which made uniforms for the GAR.

[Likely Guy]

No, there it is under "uc012 - Scarce Hand Chased Infantry Officers. The eagle and the "I" are tooled (decorated). Nice! "*Horstmann Bros & Co*/Phil": http://www.civilwarbuttons.com/uscentrlist.htm

Scroll down just a little ways.

We really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really... need a photo of the front. From what I read that could be a pricey doodad.

Dibs! I'll give you $20 (CDN) for it (if you pay the shipping).

[idahotokens]

I'm ignorant as to what a backmark is and might be on, but do know that the Philadelphia Inquirer newspaper of 19 Mar 1895 had a news article saying that "estimates are being asked for a large boiler house for Hortsmann Brothers, at Fifth and Cherry."
John in ID

[Old River]

See if this helps...Common Button Back Marks


and probable dates of manufacture



The Scovill Companies





LEVENWORTH, HAYDEN & SCOVILL 1811-1827
J.M.L. & W.H. SCOVILL 1827-1840
SCOVILLS 1827-1840
SCOVILLS & CO. 1840-1850
SCOVILL MANUFACTURING CO. 1850-1960
SCOVILL Mg. Co. 1850-1865
SCOVILL Mg. Co. / WATURBURY CT. 1850-1865
SCOVILL Mf''g Co. WATURBURY CT. 1850-1865
SCOVILL Mf''g Co. WATURBURY 1850-1865
SCOVILL Mfg Co. WATURBURY CT. 1850-1865




THE WATURBURY COMPANIES





AARON BENEDICT 1812-1823
A. BENEDICT & CO. 1823-1829
BENEDICT & COE 1829-1834
BENEDICT & BURNHAM 1834-1843
BENEDICT & BURNHAM MFG CO. 1843-1849
WATERBURY BUTTON CO. 1849-1965
WATERBURY CO.S Post 1965




THE ROBINSON COMPANIES





OBED AND OTIS ROBINSON 1812-1826
RICHARD ROBINSON & CO. 1826-1828
ROBINSON, JONES & CO 1828-1836
R. & W. ROBINSON 1836-1848
D. EVANS & CO. 1848-1945




THE HORSTMANN COMPANIES





W. H. HORSTMANN / PHILA. 1820-1850
W. H. HORSTMANN / NEW YORK 1820-1837
W. H. HORSTMANN & SONS 1843-1863
W. H. HORSTMANN & CO. / PHILA. 1864-1866
W. H. HORSTMANN & CO. / NEW YORK 1837-1847
HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / PHILA 1859-1863
HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / NEW YORK 1850-1852
HORSTMANN BROS & ALLIEN 1852-1877
HORSTMANN BROS & DRUCKER 1844-1850
HORSTMANN / PHILADELPHIA 1893-1935




OTHER BUTTON COMPANIES, U.S. MAKERS UNLESS OTHERwise SPECIFIED


A B C D E F G H I J K L M
N O P Q R S T U V W X Y




H. V. ALLIEN & CO. 1877-1948
ABBATE & DECARO 1901-1905
ACKERMAN & MIXER 1847-1861
AMERICAN BUTTON CO. 1901-1920
ALEXANDER (British?) 1800?
H. V. ALLIEN & CO 1877-1948
E. ARMFIELD & SON 1790-1855
GEORGE ARMITAGE 1799-1826
E. A. ARMSTRONG 1890-1899
ARMY & NAVY BUTTON CO 1864-1867
ARNHEIM NEW YORK 1867-1895
JOSIAH BALDWIN 1804
H.E. BALDWIN 1844-1851
G. BOGETT 1825-1832
JOHN BOYLAN 1864-1880'S
CULLEN BROWN 1846-1869
BROWNING KING & CO 1860-1934
BURTON, PIERCE CO 1910'S
CAIRN & CO. 1795-1810
C & R Imperial Standard (Britain) 1790-1820's ?
CANFIELD BROS & CO. 1840-1860'S
CARTER / LOMBARD STREET LONDON (Britain) 1790'S
CITY BUTTON WORKS Post 1907
C CLANCY DUBLIN (Ireland) 1820's ?
COURTNEY, TENNENT & CO 1849-1865
MARK COWEN & CO 1889-1916
WILLIAM CRUMPTON 1807-1823
CULLEN BROWN 1840'S
CUMNER JONES & CO. 1890-1950
THOMAS N. DALE & CO. 1870'S
DEMOULIN BROS & CO. 1900-PRESENT
DEVLIN & CO. 1860'S
EARL, LEE & CO. 1820'S
GEORGE EVANS 1877-1897
EVANS & HASSAL 1860-1868
JOHN R FARRELL 1853-1904
FECHHEIMER & CO. 1870'S
FIRMIN & SON 1790'S; 1823-1840
FIRMIN & WESTALL 1800-1811
FIRMIN & LANGDALE 1812-1823
P & S FIRMIN 1840-1875
FIRMIN & SONS LD Post 1875
FITCH & WALDO 1860'S
J. R. GAUNT & SON Post 1870
GEORGE FLOYD 1840'S
FREEMAN & CO 1860'S
J.C. FULLER 1857-1867
GODDARD & BRO. 1860'S
JACOB GMINDER 1860-1902
GODDARD & BRO 1848-1880
G & CIE PARIS (France) 1840-1865
HAMMOND TURNER & DICKINSON 1790-1800
HAMMOND TURNER & SONS 1823-1865
HYDE & GOODRICH 1860'S
CLARENCE A. HART 1880'S
T. H. HASLUCK 1825-1850
HENDERSON, AMES CO. 1890-PRSENT
HIEBERGER 1890-1900
IVES KENDRICK & CO. 1830'S
IVES SCOTT & CO. 1830'S
CHARLES JENNENS London (Britain) 1805-1815
W. H. JONES 1830'S
KELLER & FREEMAN New York 1820's?
KENDRICK & CO. 1830'S
R KIRBY & CO (Britain?) 1800?
D. KLEIN & BRO 1870-1880
LAMBERT & MAST 1850-1865
LANE & CO. 1840'S
WM. LANG 1850'S
LEAVENWORTH & CO. 1830'S
LEAVENWORTH & KENDRICK 1830'S
THOMAS LEDSAM 1800-1850
LEWIS & TOMES 1820-1832
M. C. LILLEY 1870'S
LOUD & CIE Paris (France) 1820's ?
J. M. LITCHFIELD 1880-1895
J. MANN 1805-1843
A. C. MARIEN & CO. 1870-1880'S
ROBERT MARTIN 1798-1809
R. H. MAXWELL & CO. 1844
T MILLER 1860'S
W. G. MINTZER 1858-1870
MITCHELL & TYLER 1845-1866
S. N. MEYER 1890-1925
M. L. & CO. 1805-1808
I. MOORE & CO. 1800-1830
B. PASQUALE 1890'S
A. M. PEASLEY 1808-1825
PETTIBONE MFG CO. 1880-1920
WILLIAM PINCHIN 1827-1840
ABEL PORTER & CO 1802-1811
T. POTTS 1785-1835
E. E. PRITCHARD 1840-1850
R. J. & Co (Britain?) 1800?
JACOB REEDS SONS 1880
GILES RICHARDS 1812
RIDABOCK & CO. 1880-1940
CHARLES RUBENS & CO 1883-1911
SCHUYLER HARTLEY & GRAHAM 1854-1840
SHANNON MILLER & CRANE 1865-1892
G. W. SIMMONS & CO. 1850-1870
G. SMITH 1845
WM. H. SMITH 1845
W & R SMITH 1790-1832
A. W. SPIES 1825-1834
W STANLEY London (Britain) 1800?
STEELE & JOHNSON 1858-1875
STEELE & JOHNSON MFG CO. 1875-1920
TOMES & MELVAIN CO. 1830'S
TIFFANY & CO 1852-1867
TRELON WELDON & WEILL (Paris France) 1814-1865
U. S. BUTTON CO. 1837
HENRY VANWART 1820-?
WADHAMS, COE & CO. 1830'S
WADHAMS, WEBSTER & CO. 1840'S
WADHAMS & CO. 1847
WAVERLY (Britain?) 1800?
WILLIAM WALLIS (Britain) 1800-1828
WALTON BROS 1860'S
WANAMAKER & BROWN 1860'S
C & J WELDON (Britain) 1851-1882
WILSON & STELLWAGON 1868-1873
J. H. WILSON 1873-1904
WISE, BEILLY HYDE & CO. 1820-1830
H WISHART 1812
YOUNG SMITH & CO. 1830-1858

[Likely Guy]

Thanks Old River! There you go "HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / PHILA 1859-1863"

Civil War button... okay $25 (CDN).

[fortbball9]

There was another post on here the other day (which I can't seem to find now) talking about the
same backmark that you are.With the A underlined in Phila.I am not sure if it is CW era or not it,it might
be post war.I do knowyou have to look at backmark very close.Some of them just might be a dot a missing letter that will makethem post war but they look very close to the CW era backmarks.But,that is just me talking.I am sure someone will give you a date on that backmark soon.

fortbball9

[Bigcypresshunter]

He said Bro NOT Bros.

There was another post on here the other day (which I can't seem to find now) talking about the
same backmark that you are.With the A underlined in Phila.I am not sure if it is CW era or not it,it might
be post war.I do knowyou have to look at backmark very close.Some of them just might be a dot a missing letter that will makethem post war but they look very close to the CW era backmarks.But,that is just me talking.I am sure someone will give you a date on that backmark soon.

fortbball9

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,229426.0.html

[DirtyMike]

Sorry I forgot the s in Bros. There is an "s". The button with this backmark is on the right in picture. Its a Virginia staff button.

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sorry I forgot the s in Bros. There is an "s". The button with this backmark is on the right in picture. Its a Virginia staff button.

All this time we have the wrong letters. I asked you in the other thread if you are forgetting the "s" and to please post a pic. This is why good pics are so important. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,229426.0.html (reply # 3)

Nice find.

W. H. HORSTMANN / PHILA. 1820-1850
W. H. HORSTMANN / NEW YORK 1820-1837
W. H. HORSTMANN & SONS 1843-1863
W. H. HORSTMANN & CO. / PHILA. 1864-1866
W. H. HORSTMANN & CO. / NEW YORK 1837-1847
HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / PHILA 1859-1863
HORSTMANN BROS & CO. / NEW YORK 1850-1852
HORSTMANN BROS & ALLIEN 1852-1877
HORSTMANN BROS & DRUCKER 1844-1850
HORSTMANN / PHILADELPHIA 1893-1935

[DugHoles]

I found me a similar Back button:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...tml#msg1170597

[BuckleBoy]

See if this helps...Common Button Back Marks


and probable dates of manufacture

Dammit, everyone keeps endlessly quoting this online "resource"--and it has numerous Typos in it! It says for Horstmann (and yes, it's spelled "st" and not "ts" like your post title) and Bros. Philadelphia that the backmark is 1859-1863. It is Not. The backmark was 1859-1893. Buy a button book or two--don't get your information online.

Due to the style of this 3p button, I'm thinking Indian Wars era, up to Victorian. But there are a lot of subtleties in the backmarks which can help date it. What is underlined, whether it is large letters, small letters, how far the mark is from the rim, and whether there are lined concentric circles or dotted circles around the back. Whether the bm is inset in a channel (dmdc) or just stamped (dm). Whether there are stars or dots that separate the words, etc... But there still is no photo of the back of this button.

So until we can See the back of your button, we can't be reliably expected to help you.


Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks Buckleboy for pointing out yet another error in these links. They cant even spell Waterbury. .http://pweb.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html
http://www.treasurefish.com/buttonback.htm

[Don in SJ]

When it comes to backmarks like Horstmann, a photo is a must of a very exact verbal description. Just from what I have read on what you said it is, it cannot be a Civil War button. The earliest that Tice shows HORSTMANN BROS & CO or Co . PHILA . is either 1875 or 1880 up to 1893.

[BuckleBoy]

When it comes to backmarks like Horstmann, a photo is a must of a very exact verbal description. Just from what I have read on what you said it is, it cannot be a Civil War button. The earliest that Tice shows HORSTMANN BROS & CO or Co . PHILA . is either 1875 or 1880 up to 1893.

I missed the underlined "A" in the written description of the backmark. Don, you are correct about the age of the button.


Well done.

[Bigcypresshunter]

Is this one finally solved?

[DirtyMike]

I am satisfied. Thanks so much everyone for the help. And sorry I couldnt get the pictures of the back. I will still post them when I do.