"Dagger" I.D. needed please.

[johnnyi]

First of all, pay no atention to the blade size. After I cleaned the hilt I fitted a broken upper part of an Ames sword blade I had into the handle which I shaped so I could have a presentable letter opener on my desk. The tang length of the Ames happened to fit this handle exactly. The width of the blade I fitted is much narrower than the original blade would have been.

I found this mid-stream in Pa. in the Delaware river at low water. It's inside was encrusted with hard calcified sand.
It measures four and 3/4 inches long by 3 1/2 inches across at the hilt.
The impression left in the brass shows the ORIGINAL blade would have measured 1 1/4 inches across below the hilt.

Although the design matches some early swords, it seems too small for a sword, unless it's a "short sword". Can this be possitively identified? Thanks

[PBK]

French Model 1831 Foot Artillery Sword?

http://arms2armor.com/Swords/fren1831.htm

[johnnyi]

PBK, this is what is frustrating me about the identity; for one thing there is no trace of stamping on mine; but beyond that, the dimentions seem different. For instance if you measure the width of the cross of the hilt and compare it to the length of the handle, my handle is a few "rings in the handle" shorter than the French sword. My grip feels to small for a sword or short sword also. I wish I could find exact measurements, but all I have to go on is this kind of comparison of one part to another on each example I see. I've seen some Confederate examples also which seem to come close, but again, no cigar yet. Thanks for the link though, and mine might be another manufacturer of the french sword.

[PBK]

Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best of luck in your quest for a better match...

[johnnyi]

"Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best of luck in your quest for a better match... "

Hey, you are an absolute help PBK! It might very well be a spinoff of the French sword which I'll research fiurther now. Even if it is not, every possibility I might have to discount gets me that much closer to an exact identy. Again as always, your help is greatly appreciated!!!

[Silver Searcher]

Johnnyi

could it be this one I found Swiss pioneer sawback shortsword http://www.gundersonmilitaria.com/pi...backshortsword

SS

[johnnyi]

Thanks S.S.. For some reason my computer is not allowing me to access links so I'll have to search for the Swiss model directly. I'l let you know if they are a match. thanks again.

[Silver Searcher]

Thanks S.S.. For some reason my computer is not allowing me to access links so I'll have to search for the Swiss model directly. I'l let you know if they are a match. thanks again.

8)

SS

[johnnyi]

Thanks for taking the time to scan this S.S. Both your sword and PBK's have the same number of bands in the handle, and I may have judged the dimentions wrong due to perspective in his picture. Both seem almost identical, although your's seems to have a slightly wider cross hilt compared to the length of the handle then PBK's. Mine has no evidence of any markings unlike both of your's, but I'm going to consider this solved anyway both are just too close not to be in the very same era and of the same manufacture. When does your example date from?

[Silver Searcher]

Thanks for taking the time to scan this S.S. Both your sword and PBK's have the same number of bands in the handle, and I may have judged the dimentions wrong due to perspective in his picture. Both seem almost identical, although your's seems to have a slightly wider cross hilt compared to the length of the handle then PBK's. Mine has no evidence of any markings unlike both of your's, but I'm going to consider this solved anyway both are just too close not to be in the very same era and of the same manufacture. When does your example date from?

1891

SS

[johnnyi]

Wow, 1891, that's a long span between 1830's and 1891 when this design of hilt was used. I think I'll hang on a mite longer before green checking just in case an unmarked example surfaces. Thanks.

[Silver Searcher]

Wow, 1891, that's a long span between 1830's and 1891 when this design of hilt was used. I think I'll hang on a mite longer before green checking just in case an unmarked example surfaces. Thanks.

Yes indeed, the stamping was making me slightly suspicious could be earlier

SS

[Woodland Detectors]

None the less, That is pretty cool John. I'll bet you kinda got a rush when you pulled that one from the river bed eh?

[johnnyi]

Yeah, a subdued rush, because it was a few hundred feet down stream from the old New Hope lambertville bridge, and so much has been thrown off that bridge over the years, there's no way to be sure it has any military significance. But yes, a rush. Thanks