know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
please help ID this saint -- on this mini pocket carry sized pewter saint statue * it was found at a old church building site ( NOT CATHOLIC and long since destroyed) where there was some fighting at during the civil war *---union troops were using the church as a lookout spot and and the rebel troops attacked it driving them off --
i found this today while hunting for bullets --at first i thought it was some sort of monoploy token till i checked it out closer. -- being i had "lead" notched in --this pewter religious item rang up . -- he with the left arm- is holding a cross against his body in slanted fashion upwards toward the right shoulder side --on the right hand side-- held by the right hand -- it has some sort of small short staff running from the right side foot area to about chest high.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
St Francis Of Asissi usually had a cross and sometimes he wore a large cross that hung to his chest and he kept his right hand on it.Just a wild guess.
St Christopher usually always had a long walking stick.
Just can't tell from the pewter image.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
this figure has both a left hand "cradling" a small cross that goes from the lower left hand hip area upwards across his body towards the right shoulder area --- as well as a short staff of some sort on the right hand side * running from by his right foot angled inwards towards his mid body area -- the staff is held by his right hand -- he is wearing a monk type robe and has a halo type ring behind his head. --( thus he is a saint )
I think I might have seen this type of figure of a saint in a paintiing long ago --but there are so many differant saints --even I can not remember them all.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
The church where it was found has to be Catholic as they are the only Christains that pray to Saints and Virgins...
At least that narrows it down...now, it may be a problem filtering thru the 1800 or so known Saints...
We can say that it isn't St. Nick...not holding a bay over its shoulders...that leaves 1799...
It could represent Christ or even St. Joesph (father)
If the church was other than Catholic...they you could assume that it was a dropped relic by a Union Soldier...not many Catholic churches in the south...
The more one learns the more he understands his ignorance. I am simply an ignor ant man trying to lessen his ignorance
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
the old church , that the civil war battle was fought at was NOT a catholic church * ( most of the south were not CATHOLICS at that time and still are not to this day , however many of the union troops that fought in the battle were from the northern states , and so were were much more likely to be catholic * )---as the union troops were losting the battle its possible a union soldier got hit and pulled his "st jude statue" out as he prayed for help to survive his wound- or maybe he lost it as he pulled items from his pockets during the battle ---or maybe when things were going badly for the union troops pulled out his "lost causes" st jude pocket statue to pray for aid and lost it --or when they were forced to retreat in disgust he threw it away. --
exactly how and why it was lost --we might never know * however I can say it was found just behind the corner of the old red brick church building ( the foundation bricks are still there. ) where one could hide for cover during the fighting - great for protective shelter while reloading , then you could lean and peep around the end to fire at the enemy --that much i do know -- the item was about 8 inches deep.
I'm thinking it from the looks of it that it might be ---st jude -- patron saint of "lost causes" --in many of st jude's representations--he carrys a short staff /club in his right hand * typically -- the left arm cross "carrying" is common to many saints -BUT until i see a image with st jude with a cross "cradled" in the left arm and short staff/ club held by the right --I can not be 100% sure.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
thank you very much TX -very interesting --from looking at that website it seems that these tiny little figures came from germanyduring the civil war era and were originally in a thin sheet metal carrying case * -- my find had no case and while my figure is just slightly a little bit differant than the one shown , clearly it is basically the same thing no doubt about it *
so its a civil war era --catholic religous item ( mine seems to be st jude as best as i can tell) with northern troops at that location (the old brick church in jacksonville was being used as a look out spot by union troops)--i would say much more likely to be a union soldiers item -- location found at was behind the churches corners edge--a ideal spot to hide at while loading and for peeping around the corner to fire at enemy troops at.
the night of March 24th ,1862 * -- Lt Thomas Strange of company H and C H Ross and Frank Ross of company I 3rd Florida Regiment along with 10 vollenteers attacked a union picket / lookout station at "brick church' in jacksonville , florida -- killing 4 union soldiers and taking 3 prisioners -- Lt Strange was mortally wounded during the attack and died the only confederate fatality of the raid ----during the fight the rebel troops forced the union troops from the old brick church area and back onto their ships in the st johns river -- due to the union ships ability to shell the area when the union troops left ( the rebels had no artillery with which to fire back with and did not want to have their troops needlessly killed as well as the town needlessly shelled ) the rebels afterwards left the area as well
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
Ivan... are you kidding? You'll never figure out how old it is for crying out loud. Why does every religious medal ever found have to be historic? CW era my eye.
Your scan is terrible, but still, I think it's St. Paul, circa. 1960. They still make these today by the boatload.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
jim -- your statues are way bigger than mine is * (2 1/2 to 3 inches) vs 1 1/16th of a inch -- see the wheat penny along side it for size ** which number of the ones you posted , do you think it looks like , none look like mine that i see --note the closest one of the ones you showed to mine in looks is "st jude" however the short staff is in the wrong hand and it is not "cradling" a cross in the left arm -- I am sorry the scan is not better ------- also note that the church the battle was fought at was NOT a catholic church but rather was baptist --thus its folks would not have carried saint statues in their pockets * and that the church was long ago torn down in the early 1900's era.--- also take into account where it was found -- the brick church WAS the scene of a small civil war battle. --documented * ( and the item WAS found 8 inches deep near the corner of the brick church close to the wall --in what would be a ideal spot to take cover and return fire from during a battle ) -- the item both in size and general type looks matches up great with the small figure on the civil war website as well -- so no I'm not kidding.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
Originally Posted by Montana Jim
Ivan... are you kidding? You'll never figure out how old it is for crying out loud. Why does every religious medal ever found have to be historic? CW era my eye.
Your scan is terrible, but still, I think it's St. Paul, circa. 1960. They still make these today by the boatload.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
Originally Posted by txconservative
Originally Posted by Montana Jim
Ivan... are you kidding? You'll never figure out how old it is for crying out loud. Why does every religious medal ever found have to be historic? CW era my eye.
Your scan is terrible, but still, I think it's St. Paul, circa. 1960. They still make these today by the boatload.
Ivan, you missed my point - height not withstanding, there were countless of these made. And, are you attributing this single item to that Lt. Strange event you posted - a lone confederate soldier being shot there? No chance some kid dropped in there while paying with friends? No chance anyone lost it there since the Civil War?
Have we learned nothing on this site that proves depth-of-find does not mean age, especially next to a foundation?
Every miniball in NOT a war relic. If you had found it on the dashboard of a 1970 dodge pick-up, then what would you say about it?
It's just frustrating to see unsubstantiated attributes.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
no jim -- I'm not saying it not belonged to LT Thomas Strange he was the leader of the 13 man confederate forces which was attacking the "union" lookout post ( known as "brick church"- it was NOT a catholic church) == in the attack 4 union soldiers were killed and 3 taken prisioner (I THINK the item came from one of the killed or wounded union soldiers most likely )--( note a unknown amout of union soldiers retreated-back to nearby their ships in the st johns river ) -- from the area found ( a ideal combanation cover & firing position spot on the what would have beeen a back corner during the attack corner (frankly it would have been the spot i woulld have choose if I was defending the brick church position ) and the 8 inch depth at which it was found --plus being it being CLOSE IN ALONG THE OUTER EDGE OF THE WALL *- like the way a person would be if he hunkered agianst a wall during battle.
withthe relic's the size and type exactly matching 1 1/16 inch size (it matches in size and general overall looks wize with the one shown on the civil war page *)---yes because of several of these facts all being "right" all at the exact sameevent / spot place / time range era -- these overall facts "all coming together" at once -- #1 it matches up well with a known CW era type relic --(see web page) -- #2 the brick chruch was NOT a catholic church -- #3 the right spot ( brick church * documented CW battle took place there) -- #4 the right "location" at the brick church --see diagram below. ( in a cover /firing type location- close to the wall) -- ideal union soldier type defending spot --#5 union soldiers were much more likely to be catholics than southerners were --most southern folks tend to be baptist both then and now -- I do think its A CW RELIC lost by a union soldier -- and i still love you too.
of course without a item being stamped US or CSA -- there is generally no way in hell to tell 100% FOR SURE if a item is CW related -- even civil war type bullets -FOUND ON A BATTLEFIELD AREA --- COULD HAVE BEEN FIRED AT A LATER DATE BY A HUNTER HUNTING GAME USING A OLD CW ERA MILITARY TYPE RIFLE . IF ONE REALLY WANTS TO GET NIT PICKY ABOUT IT.
SO I SAY " I THINK" -- not "I know"-- as in "I think this might have belonged to a union soldier , and was lost by him during the fighting there"
With millions of religious items made over the years, its hard to find an exact match. Because of the tiny size, I think its possible to be this type of item, although a different saint. I would imagine these were made before, during and after the war.
Cool little pocket religious item.
I live in a state of rules where I am not permitted to live on my own country land because my home is not 130 MPH rated! I can only visit it from time to time and pay the fines. I feel so safe with Big Government protecting me. In some states its illegal to collect rainwater.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
Not really.
************
Ivan, you missed my point - height not withstanding, there were countless of these made. And, are you attributing this single item to that Lt. Strange event you posted - a lone confederate soldier being shot there? No chance some kid dropped in there while paying with friends? No chance anyone lost it there since the Civil War?
Have we learned nothing on this site that proves depth-of-find does not mean age, especially next to a foundation?
Every miniball in NOT a war relic. If you had found it on the dashboard of a 1970 dodge pick-up, then what would you say about it?
It's just frustrating to see unsubstantiated attributes.
I still love you.
It still should not matter. He posted this here for a reason. His post was not asking for any hostility
"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat."— Ronald Reagan
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
Originally Posted by txconservative
Not really.
************
Ivan, you missed my point - height not withstanding, there were countless of these made. And, are you attributing this single item to that Lt. Strange event you posted - a lone confederate soldier being shot there? No chance some kid dropped in there while paying with friends? No chance anyone lost it there since the Civil War?
Have we learned nothing on this site that proves depth-of-find does not mean age, especially next to a foundation?
Every miniball in NOT a war relic. If you had found it on the dashboard of a 1970 dodge pick-up, then what would you say about it?
It's just frustrating to see unsubstantiated attributes.
I still love you.
It still should not matter. He posted this here for a reason. His post was not asking for any hostility
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
nope JIM--- I do not think it belonged to Lt Strange * he was the confedate raid commander * that was mortally wounded during the attack ( I do NOT think it was his item)--- however given #1 the location it was found at is a known recorded CW battle site (brick church) #2 --its exact location (an ideal cover and firing postion on a corner of the church ) and 8 inch depth up close along the wall upon the brick church grounds #3 the fact that UNION troops controlled the brick church ( they were using it as a lookout post) which was the reason behind the rebel attack upon it. #4 -- the item matches up nicely with a similar known size and type of CW era catholic relics of this type. #5 then as now the south tends to be more baptist than catholic (thus more likely to be a union item) #6 the "brick church" WAS NOT a catholic church then or later on ---because of the "overlap" of all these differant facts and events at the same place and time location --- I thinking that this item MIGHT have belonged to one of the four killed or 3 taken prisioner UNION troops --- of course generally speaking nothing can be proven 100% -- esp when dealing with CW historical items --so I can only say -- I THINK it is -- others are of course free to think what they like --its a free country .--- Ivan
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
Did you find the penny with it?
I live in a state of rules where I am not permitted to live on my own country land because my home is not 130 MPH rated! I can only visit it from time to time and pay the fines. I feel so safe with Big Government protecting me. In some states its illegal to collect rainwater.
Re: know what it is ( old tiny pocket sized pewter saint statue) which saint is it?
nope the wheat cent was found elsewhere , awhile back -- Ijust included the cent to show the very tiny size of the item .-- luckily I had the "lead" area on my delta 4000 notched in since i was looking for CW era lead bullets --and this tiny little pewter item rang up -- the delta 4000 hit it true and steady at 8 inches deep .-- at first before digging I thought I might have had found a "dropped" bullet but to me this is way cooler.
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Originally Posted by Montana Jim
