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  1. #1

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    How do I determine what rifle this is?

    If anyone knows the best way to determine what model rifle this is from the relics I have, I would bemost grateful.

    It was recovered in Spanish Fort from the Battle of Mobile Bay.

    Regards,

    MichaelB
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  3. #2

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Close up of trigger.
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  4. #3

    Jun 2006
    13

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Usually you could tell by the Lockplate,but obviously it's a little rusty.But it looks like it is a percussion conversion though.

  5. #4
    us
    Jun 2005
    511
    1 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    I would examine the bayonet and try to find one that matches.

    Measure the bore. Is it smooth or rifled? How long is the barrel? Note the shape of the buttplate ( I think the trigger tang is bent, but note it's length.) It seems to have only one barrel band (unless you didn't find the other/s) and a metal forend cap. Compare this data with rifles/ muskets you would expect to find at that location.

  6. #5
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,170
    801 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    HOLA":

    From the bend in the tang and the slight bend in the barrel in the same direction, I would say that it ended it's career wrapped around someones head in close combat.

    The Bayonet type and action leads me to believe that it is a US Springfield. The picture of the breech isn't too clear, but it appears to have a nipple arrangemnt

    Another closeup picture of the breech please.

    Duh !

    Your pitch DOC.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  7. #6

    Sep 2004
    clarkston,wa.
    402

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    I believe you have an Austrian Model 1854 Lorenze musket.[/img][/img]
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    Nautilus DMC IIBa

  8. #7

    Sep 2004
    clarkston,wa.
    402

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Darn it! I have the worst time with photos! Here is a picture of the lock....I hope.[img][/img]
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    Nautilus DMC IIBa

  9. #8
    us
    Jun 2005
    511
    1 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    I believe the key here will be to match the bayonet. There were slight differences for different models. The one pictured doesn't seem to match the Austrian rifle.

    The buttplate looks too square to be a Springfield rifle, perhaps an Enfield or a Mississippi rifle, which had only one barrel band and a large intricate forend cap. It also had a patchbox, but that may have been eliminated when converted to fire Minnie balls, or just not found.


  10. #9

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Additional photo.
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  11. #10

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Additional photo.
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  12. #11

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Additional photo.
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  13. #12

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Last photo.
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  14. #13
    us
    Jun 2005
    511
    1 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Found another photo of the 1854 Lorenze bayonet, it might be a better match than I first thought. The hammer shape also seems to fit the Lorenze.

    I think the first step is to learn the history of the site, find out what units served there and how they were equipped. This will narrow the possibilities. Then match the characteristics of your find (bayonet, barrel length,) for a positive ID. Once you know what you're looking for, you may want to visit a museum for a close look at butplates, hammers, lockplates, bayonet sockets and blades.
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  15. #14
    us
    May 2005
    Winchester, VA
    GPX5000, GPX4500, Blisstool, F75 LTD, DFX, MXT
    141
    35 times
    Relic Hunting

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    I dug the same buttplate, I am told it's from an Enfield. Are there any markings under the tongue of the buttplate, like Roman Numerals?

  16. #15
    us
    Mar 2005
    North East Pennsylvainia
    Minelab Musketeer/ White's MXT
    148

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    OK, Here we go. After looking over a bunch of rifles, I found it to be possibly a Enfield Rifle.
    J.S. Anchor- marked Enfield Artillary.
    Imported from Great Britain est. 1861.
    Later some of these rifles were converted to carbines and also barrels had 3 groove rifling added.
    I hope this of some help. Being that it was found in Alabama, it told me that it was Confederate.
    Looking at Confederate rifles used back then, this is what I found

  17. #16
    us
    Mar 2005
    North East Pennsylvainia
    Minelab Musketeer/ White's MXT
    148

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    One more thing I just found that the British wanted to stay neutral to the North and South, so they
    contracted the manufacturing and shipping of these rifles out of England.

  18. #17

    Oct 2005
    Charleston S.C.
    3,667
    1 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Most Likley An Enfield. trk5capt...
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  19. #18

    Sep 2004
    clarkston,wa.
    402

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    The Austrians sold a very large number of the Model 1854 Lorenz muskets to both the North and the South during the Civil war. Mostly they sold them in .54 caliber to the South,and in .58 caliber to the North. And they often used whatever surplus parts they could adapt to this model. So there are numerous variations seen in this model. I base my identification on the details of the hammer, profile of the lock especially the cutout for the nipple bolster, and the shape of the bolster itself. No American musket nor the Enfield muskets used this lock profile or this type of bolster. Almost any bayonet of the period could have been adapted to the Austrian musket. The user of that musket may have just picked one up and stuck it on.
    Nautilus DMC IIBa

  20. #19

    Aug 2005
    Mobile Bay, Alabama
    430
    2 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Great info from all!

    I am most grateful.

    MichaelB

  21. #20
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,170
    801 times

    Re: How do I determine what rifle this is?

    Michael, remember that rifle was ruined by hitting someone on the head in violent combat. He held the rifle by the barrel and bent it on an opponents head, A special collectors item.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

 

 

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