Jed Clampetts? Rare 69 Cal. conversion

[B|lker]

I was told to move this here by a local detecting Wise Man. :P
AKA Modern Miner

Received this for moving a couple of woodworking tools for a customer.

Any help on age, point of origin and name would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for any help in advance.
Sorry i wont be able to get to replys till thursday night. Remodeling works gone crazy.

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[Bigcypresshunter]

The gun is made in Belgium. It looks authentic.

[traderoftreasures]

E.L.G. European Proof Mark

[Bigcypresshunter]

Liege gun works of Belgium

[B|lker]

Thanks all here`s the previous post that has some good links.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,414434.0.html
OH, whats it worth?

[Gunny71]

Darn, I know I have seen that one before. I cant remember what it is, but I believe it was once a muzzle loader but was converted into a breech loader. Ill have to dig around some, But I have seen that rifle before.

[B|lker]

Thanks BCH,
Need more info to keep it off the mantel as a conversation piece.

[texwolf]

Hey I own one of these But mine is marked ZULU. and I have had it checked out and it was from and used in the Great Zulu war. I have had a value of around 400. on mine but keep it hanging over my mantle. It is a Nice looking item you have ... If you want some more info on it I can get you some..

[NOLA_Ken]

It's similar to a model 1864 Snyder breech loader, but looks like a sporting rifle more than military. My GUESS is that it's a shotgun, but that's only a guess. It's a really cool over the mantle gun though whatever it turns out to be. If I were researching it "Snyder Breechloader" is where I'd start.

Here's a link to a military Snyder rifle:

http://www.ima-usa.com/british-p-186...-complete.html

It's selling for $550.

A little research and I have found out that many of the Snyder rifles were sold as surplus, and converted into sporting arms. Mostly 12 gauge shotguns. Whatever you do, don't try to fire a modern 12 ga shell in it, IT WILL BLOW UP!, they were made for black powder only.

Here's a link to one similar to yours.....

http://www.monstermarketplace.com/ce...otgun-457-used

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks BCH,
Need more info to keep it off the mantel as a conversation piece.

I dont know the value. I only recognized the Liege mark. Some members found Belgian boot pistols with the same L E G * mark.

[NOLA_Ken]

Found a bit more : "They are actually French muzzleloading rifle-muskets converted to .69 cal. breech-loading rifles, which in turn were converted to shotguns."

[Bigcypresshunter]

Found a bit more : "They are actually French muzzleloading rifle-muskets converted to .69 cal. breech-loading rifles, which in turn were converted to shotguns."

I guess its a breech-loader made in Leige and stamped HUNTER, created from a French made musket, later converted to 12 ga. shotgun as explained

http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCG...TABASE=objects,

Notes: "SPAR-8140 - ZULU - 12 guage -This gun was created from a French Army musket by a Belgian gun maker. The trade name ZULU was registered in Belgium December 23, 1885 by Fabrique D'Armes De Liege. They also made guns of this type marked HUNTER, GREENBACK, BUSHMAN, and KAFFIR" - Joseph T. Vorisek


"With the advent of the breech loading guns many older guns were rebuilt and a breech block added to use more modern ammunition. This 'mongrel' gun was remade in Belgium from an old French musket made at St. Etienne, France, and with the breech adapted to use a Snyder type breech block. Chambered to take the 12 gage shot gun shell.
Thousands of these guns were sold to the natives in the Colonial possessions of various European countries."

[diggummup]

Found a bit more : "They are actually French muzzleloading rifle-muskets converted to .69 cal. breech-loading rifles, which in turn were converted to shotguns."

I guess its a breech-loader made in Leige and stamped HUNTER, created from a French made musket, later converted to 12 ga. shotgun as explained

http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCG...TABASE=objects,

Notes: "SPAR-8140 - ZULU - 12 guage -This gun was created from a French Army musket by a Belgian gun maker. The trade name ZULU was registered in Belgium December 23, 1885 by Fabrique D'Armes De Liege. They also made guns of this type marked HUNTER, GREENBACK, BUSHMAN, and KAFFIR" - Joseph T. Vorisek


"With the advent of the breech loading guns many older guns were rebuilt and a breech block added to use more modern ammunition. This 'mongrel' gun was remade in Belgium from an old French musket made at St. Etienne, France, and with the breech adapted to use a Snyder type breech block. Chambered to take the 12 gage shot gun shell.
Thousands of these guns were sold to the natives in the Colonial possessions of various European countries."

Good one BigC. I found the same article yesterday while researching this in his other thread here- http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,414434.0.htmlbut didn't post it because I got busy doing something else.

[B|lker]

Cool, I love everyone`s responses.
Still soaking it all up and doing more research.
Work has limited my ability to spend as much time as i would like responding to all.
Thanks all,
B|lker

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I have a similar one - though mine is marked "ZULU" as well.


They do fire (if you are brave enough). When it's open pulling back on the hinged block extracts the shot shell.

[NOLA_Ken]

I have a similar one - though mine is marked "ZULU" as well.


They do fire (if you are brave enough). When it's open pulling back on the hinged block extracts the shot shell.

You're braver than I am, I'd never want to put a modern (smokeless powder) shot shell through one of those.

[B|lker]

Again you guys are great with the info.
Where would the ZULU marking be located? Maybe i missed it.

[truckinbutch]

I remember reading an article in Field&Stream 50 or so years ago by Corey Ford(?) about one of these that he used as a kid . Had a nail tethered with a leather thong as a firing pin repair .
He would stand on a stump as his dogs coursed a rabbit . Upon firing , he would jump from the stump and hunker to look under the smoke cloud to see if he had hit anything .

[Charlie P. (NY)]

On mine the "ZULU" is on the top of the barrel about 5" ahead of the breech end. The hammer is also that off shape exactly like the drawing NOLA_Ken posted but it has the identical Liege cartouche you posted. Guess the HUNTER is based on a different musket with the breech conversion.

One source I found said the ZULU was built on an 1842 French military musket. They sold for $3.40 in the 1897 Sears & Roebuck catalog.

As far as shooting - this thing is rugged like a 12-ton bottle jack. It will probably be servicable another 200 years from now. But I did do the first two shots from a good distance with a rope tied to the trigger and the gun setting in a tire.

[NOLA_Ken]

The name should be engraved on the barrel, Zulu, or Hunter or one of the other brands.....

For you and Charlie P. You can reload shotshells with black powder loads, you have to be careful to load them correctly and be sure the shot wad is TIGHT to the powder. It can be done with modern hulls and a shell press, the initial investment is a good amount, (couple hundred $ for everything) but more than worth it in the long run if you want to keep shooting the gun. You can also buy black powder shotshells ready made, but they tend to be pricey. Average powder load for a 12 ga. is around 80 grains of powder, and a matching weight in shot. Be careful, and have fun. (these numbers are for a muzzle loader loading a shell might be different).