little lead caps need ID

[Ifoundit69]

I found these yesterday on a dig , two small lead caps on a C.W site . I have a found a couple of these before but not sure what they are ....can anyone ID and enlighten me . There size is just a tad bigger than a pencil eraser .

[Eddie Lomax]

Possibly a cap from a roofing nail.

[BosnMate]

Possibly a cap from a roofing nail.

That was my first thought. I tried to detect a place that had been re-roofed, and those things were everywhere along with lots of nails. Finally quit digging them and dug the only target that was different than those, and it was a plated ring with a glass diamond. I totally gave up on that place.

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I did a brief search on nails in general, and roofing nails in particular, but did not find an exact match to the items in question. Most (if not all) roofing nail "gaskets" have holes in them. However, I did find what were referred to as ...

"Victorian Picture Hanging Nails"

... except that the majority of this type of nail measure appx 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter across the head and have porcelain or glass inserts. I'm not entirely sure how they were used, as some appear to be threaded on one end. Plus, if the items were this type of nail, then why would there be so many of them laying around on the ground?

All things considered, and based on what I've seen, I honestly don't think the items in question are nail related ... but admit I do not have a clear-cut idea yet as to what they might be. The "tad bigger than a pencil eraser" really has me boggled! That ain't very big!

SBB

[Ifoundit69]

I dont think they are nails , or anything of that nature as these where actually found behind a high bank on a C.W trench line no houses around . And there are solid lead .

[Bigcypresshunter]

Possibly a cap from a roofing nail.

I agree with Eddie. They have been posted here before. I think the lead covers the nail head to waterproof it.

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did a brief search on nails in general, and roofing nails in particular, but did not find an exact match to the items in question. Most (if not all) roofing nail "gaskets" have holes in them. However, I did find what were referred to as ...

"Victorian Picture Hanging Nails"

... except that the majority of this type of nail measure appx 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter across the head and have porcelain or glass inserts.

SBB

Hey thanks Bob. I think you verified an item I found. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,97777.0.html

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here are some similar. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,376480.0.html

Here are a few links to look at. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,282044.0.html

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,293821.0.html

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Big Cy ~

I don't want to get too far off topic here, as it still needs to be determined what a bunch of lead nail-caps (if in fact that's what they are) were doing at a Civil War embankment? In the meantime, I thought you and dg39 (if he's still around) would like to see one of the more popular ways of using those Victorian picture hanging nails. As evidenced in the pictures below, I noticed a trend where that particular type of nail was often used on what are typically referred to as "Adirondack" picture frames. Notice the design of the frame and the decorative nails in all four corners.

Now back to ... What the heck are those lead things? Are we certain they're nail caps?

SBB

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~

I don't want to get too far off topic here,...

... I thought you and dg39 (if he's still around) would like to see one of the more popular ways of using those Victorian picture hanging nails. As evidenced in the pictures below, I noticed a trend where that particular type of nail was often used on what are typically referred to as "Adirondack" picture frames. Notice the design of the frame and the decorative nails in all four corners.

SBB

You could have/should have posted these pics on the other thread but its cool. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,97777.0.html I green checked it yesterday. Thanks for the added information. I appreciate the help.

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Ifoundit69 ~

Before Green checking this topic as definitely being "Lead Roofing Caps," I'd like to ask the Civil War era experts among us a few questions first. The reason being is, I keep scratching my head and wondering why lead roofing caps would so often be found at Civil War sites / encampments / etc., especially in locals where old homesteads were not nearby?

Questions:

1. Is it documented somewhere (Patented) that lead roofing caps were definitely in
use during the early to mid 1860s?
2. Are the old barns where lead roofing caps were removed definitely from this same
time period? Even a barn built in the 1870s and 80s is over a hundred years old!
3. Was it a common practice for Civil War soldiers to scavenge anything they could
that was made out of lead so as to melt it down and make shot for their rifles?
4. Are the lead roofing caps that others have found definitely "a tad bigger than a
pencil eraser?" If not, how big are they?

Thanks in advance to whomever wishes to address these questions. I guess its just a case of a skeptic like me who questions almost everything, and who would honestly like to know what the true connection is to lead roofing caps and Civil War sites?

Gracias'

SBB

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

To help answer one of my own questions, I have resized the following picture based on the quarter. Which tells me that certain lead roofing caps are in fact about the size of a pencil eraser. Now back to ... what's the connection (if any) between lead roofing nail caps and Civil War sites?

SBB

Footnote/Suggestion: Whenever coins are being used to determine size, please note that it is usually not that difficult to resize pictures accordingly. It can make a world of difference when trying to put things into perspective. And then just post both pictures if attempting to show a close up. Gracias'

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Note: The following is inconclusive at present and will require more research. But in my opinion it is worth considering. It is intended solely for the purpose of trying to establish facts only, and not to create controversy or argument.

~ * ~

I have been doing some research on nails in general and roofing nails in particular. And although there is a great deal to be found regarding the history of nails in particular, there is very little of it that focuses on roofing nails. However, I did find enough regarding roofing nails, especially ones with lead caps, to cause me to believe they were not used until after the Civil War. I invite you to do your own research if you wish to find out more specifics, but the following is what I have found so far.

Note: I admit it is premature of me to assume that square-headed nails most likely did not fit well with round caps/gaskets made out of lead. But until furthure research proves otherwise, I'm going with the evidence which indicates that round-headed nails were not invented and used until after the Civil War. Of course, there is always the possibility that a square nail was used in a round gasket, but I seriously doubt it. The most compelling evidence that I found regarding the patenting and use of lead-capped roofing nails can be read below.

In conclusion: (Personal opinion only). If the mystery caps in question are in fact nail related, I honestly believe at this juncture that they ended up where they were found "after the Civil War." And if the caps are not nail related, then I really don't know what they are, and will require more detaild research to determine that.

Please check out the following and see what you think. The links are all nail history related, some with pictures and some without.

Thanks for allowing me this opportunity to present a few more clues, no matter how inconclusive they may seem.

Gracias'

SBB

Joseph Venables applied for a patent on 13 September 1883 for "Tin Wired Nails with solid lead-heads and washers." His invention first tinned the nail and then cast the lead-head on to it, making it solid and not liable to separate from the nail when being driven. It was claimed that the "wire nail makes a smaller hole in the iron than the ordinary galvanized nail. The solid head prevents leakage. The combination saves time in dispensing the necessity of threading washers required in the use of the ordinary galvanized nail and can be supplied at less cost." In 1899 Joseph Venables again applied for a patent for "An improvement in the manufacture of lead-headed nails, and apparatus for employment in connection therewith." But this application lapsed in 1900.


In the 1850’s several manufactures were established in New York which made wire nails. These machines were most likely imported from France. The earliest wire nails were not made for construction but for the manufacture of pocket book frames and cigar boxes. It was not until after the American War Between the States that wire nails began to gain acceptance in construction. Even through the 1890’s many builders preferred using cut nails because of their holding power. It was well into the twentieth century before wire nails became the dominate type and only then because they were so much cheaper.

http://www.uvm.edu/histpres/203/nails.html

http://www.appaltree.net/aba/nails.htm

http://www.branz.co.nz/cms_show_down...130d6498a338f9

http://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/bit...pdf?sequence=1

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. / Summary / To Clarify

In other words ...

I'm not saying ifoundit69's caps are not nail-heads. I'm only suggesting if they are nail-heads, that they ended up at the Civil War embankment "after" the Civil War ended and were not lost or placed there by Civil War soldiers.

And if it turns out the caps are not nail-heads, then the mystery continues as to what they actually are.

Thanks again.

Bob