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Thread: Help ID Pistol Please.

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  1. #76
    us
    Oct 2009
    North Carolina
    White's DFX & Spectrum~Garrett's Pro-Pointer~VibraProbe
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    Metal Detecting
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    I just went through 201 pages of Cast Iron Toy Pistols by Charles Best and couldn't find a match to your shape. The closest one I could find was a Stevens Firecracker, circa 1872. BreezieClick image for larger version. 

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    Every time I watch Gone With The Wind, I think we're gonna win this time!

  2. #77
    us
    Sep 2009
    Southern California
    2,502
    28 times
    I keep saying this is my last reply, but this time I think it actually is. This is not to suggest that the revolver pictured below is directly connected to the item in question, but rather to illustrate my theory regarding the angle or slant of the handle. If in fact the item is a trigger guard, then I believe it came from a revolver that looked more along the lines of this one than it did a typical Colt variety. Just because the relic came from a Civil war era site, doesn't mean it couldn't have originated in a foreign country. I bet them good ol' civil war boys, both north and south, scorunged up every hand weapon they could get their hands on, no matter what country it was made in. Which is likely one of the reasons why there are so many different varieties around today.

    SBB

    Kerr ~ Made in England

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    Mystery rusted trigger guard thing. Made in


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    Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 15, 2012 at 10:28 AM.

  3. #78
    us
    Sep 2009
    Southern California
    2,502
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    The following is to assist those who intend to do additional research regarding a more specific identification of this trigger guard. SoMdRelicHunter said in one of his initial post that the guard measured "roughly six inches long." So what I've done here is to add red marks that roughly indicate the six inches. The blue marks indicate appx two inches for the length of what I'm calling the Barrel Portion of the guard.

    What I found of interest by doing this, is that 100% of the revolvers, both American and foreign, that I've looked at so far all have barrel portions ranging anywhere from about 1/2" inch to appx 1" inch. I have yet to find a revolver that has a barrel portion that even comes close to 2" inches. Which leads me to suspect there is more to the mystery than meets the eye. Meaning, the guard might be from a rifle or some other type of revolver or hand gun that we have yet to consider.

    In the even that anyone chooses to continue the search, I suggest they pay specific attention to the length of the barrel portion. I believe there is a solid clue in this feature that will eventually lead to a more specific identification.


    I wish I had a single example of a revolver trigger guard to show you that has a 2" inch barrel portion, but unfortunately I have yet to find one. Thus, please keep rifles and/or other types of hand guns in mind while conducting your searches. And please keep the angle/slant of the handle portion in mind. There is a clue there as well.

    This link is one of the best I've seen that shows a huge variety of firearms, and also has incredibly clear and large pictures. Just pick your category of choice and go from there. The only bummer is you have to click on see photos to open each one individually. And there are hundreds of them, which could take hours to view. So far I have only looked at a fraction of them.

    Link: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/sitemap.htm

    Good luck.

    Sodaboggledbob


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    Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 15, 2012 at 12:33 PM.

  4. #79
    us
    Sep 2009
    Southern California
    2,502
    28 times
    SoMdRelicHunter ~

    I realize your trigger guard needs a good electro-cleaning which will likely reveal all sorts of clues, but in the meantime could you please humor me by checking in the area where I have placed the orange arrows and see if there is even a hint of a nitch or change in thickness. The reason I ask is because if there is a nitch, then that might indicate a portion of it that was concealed within the gun and not seen from the outside. I am including a picture of the English Kerr revolver which I have placed red arrows on to indicate the area I am referring to as possibly being concealed. The primary reason for this request involves my attempt to try and explain the unusually long 2" inch barrel portion.

    The closeup pictures with the red lines indicate the concealed areas ... but would likely have a nitch or change of thickness where I placed the green arrow.

    I just hope I'm making sense with this and not over staying my welcome. Mainly I'm trying to determine (prove) whether the trigger guard came from a revolver or a rifle? (But I am definitely favoring some type of hand gun like the Kerr pictured here with the correctly angled handle).

    Thanks a lot ... (No hurry)

    Bob

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    Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 15, 2012 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #80
    us
    Sep 2009
    Southern California
    2,502
    28 times
    Please know that it is not my intention to drive myself or anyone else crazy with this, but I just have to add that after looking at ten jillion different types of revolvers - rifles - flintlocks - muskets - and everything in between, there is one aspect to SoMdRelicHunter's trigger guard that I will take to the bank and stake my reputation on. Which is ...

    The angle of the handle is the strongest clue we have! I am 100% convinced that the trigger guard is not from an ordinary revolver like a Colt or a Remington. Nor can I find any type of rifle that matches the angle either. Which brings me to one of two possibilities. Which are ...


    1. The trigger guard if from a flintlock type pistol.

    or

    2. The trigger guard is from a foreign type pistol.


    Based on the literally hundreds of examples I've seen, these two categories are, in my opinion, the most logical choices. For me it's all about the angle of the handle ... as illustrated with the examples below.

    I realize these examples are years apart and that this is anything but conclusive. I also have no idea what the inner/concealed portion of the guards look like. But I will say the angle of the handles on both guns is correct, and that somewhere among the hundreds of pistols and revolvers there is one that will eventually match the angle of the handle on the trigger guard in question.

    Thanks for allowing me to indulge myself ... and just know that indulging myself is what I do best.

    Gracias'

    Bob

    Correct angles ...

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    Incorrect angle ...

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    Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 15, 2012 at 04:33 PM.

  6. #81
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    I agree, never give up if you feel its not the correct ID. We need to get it right. That last flintlock looks like a good possibility. Did you post it before? I keep thinking the barrel sits on the OP's piece in question but it appears the barrel sits on wood and the trigger guard is attached to the wood underneath, It also has a head knocker knob but no screw hole for the grips. We need someone to dissassemble a flintlock pistol but I dont have one.

    Hey Bob how do you change colors?
    Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Apr 15, 2012 at 04:12 PM.

  7. #82
    us
    Sep 2009
    Southern California
    2,502
    28 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigcypresshunter View Post
    Hey Bob how do you change colors?
    Big Cy ~

    By arrowing down on the big A of the options bar. And then clicking on the color of choice. You can do it with any word and see the results Instantly. You can even revert it back to "automatic" black.


    Thanks for the support.


    Bob

  8. #83
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by SODABOTTLEBOB View Post
    Big Cy ~

    By arrowing down on the big A of the options bar. And then clicking on the color of choice. You can do it with any word and see the results Instantly. You can even revert it back to "automatic" black.


    Thanks for the support.


    Bob
    Ah OK thanks. A big black "A" for "Text Color" or A for Automatic? . Somehow I missed it and I didnt see the tiny arrow.
    Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Apr 15, 2012 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #84
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Im jumping on the flintlock pistol bandwagon. But the hand grip screw has me puzzled. Are there any fllinlocks with ivory grips?

  10. #85
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    Quote Originally Posted by SODABOTTLEBOB View Post
    Can you tilt it?

  11. #86

    Dec 2006
    1,247
    104 times
    Well it really can't be a sidelock flintlock like the one pictured. The way the trigger is set up just could not work. Also a flintlock like the one pictured has just a small trigger plate no more than a couple of inches long, if any at all. Some triggers are just pinned into the wood. It really just could not work with any sidelock muzzleloader. It would appear to be from some sort of firearm with a centrally located firing mechanism, not a sidelock. I really can't see it being from a revolver either, Every one I have ever seen had the trigger mounted into the frame, no way it could be fastened to a triggerguard. Another possibility would be to some sort of Civil War era carbine, there were many different types and all sorts of trigger and breech arrangements. There is also the chance that it is much newer, and part of a cartridge type gun, or even some sort of flare gun. Further cleaning may be the only way to get more information on it, but it may be too far rusted for that.

  12. #87
    us
    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
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    856 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by l.cutler View Post
    I really can't see it being from a revolver either, Every one I have ever seen had the trigger mounted into the frame, no way it could be fastened to a triggerguard. .
    I thought the possibility that the trigger was frozen with the trigger guard in a clump of mud and rust, certainly not fastened to it.

  13. #88
    us
    Sep 2009
    Southern California
    2,502
    28 times
    L.cutler ~

    I hear what you're saying 100%. I admit I don't know the difference between a sidelock and a padlock. I'm mainly trying to emphasize my belief that there is a major clue to be found in the angle of the handle portion.

    Thanks.

    SBB
    Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; Apr 15, 2012 at 05:06 PM.

  14. #89
    us
    I Often Find Myself Killing Time Looking For What Time Has Killed!

    Feb 2009
    Morehead City / Newport NC
    Minelab Explorer Se Pro
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    IMHO,that trigger guard is to cheesy looking to come off any real gun.It just looks like what I would think of as a toy.Rather that would be a cap gun,BB gun,hell I've even seen vintage cross bow triggers that look like that but no real bang bang guns that come to my mind.Couple pics. below to see what I'm saying.
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    Them Colonials​Can't Hide Nowhere Now!

  15. #90
    us
    Jan 2007
    Infinium and Sovereign GT
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    This all is out of my league now .... ..... good luck with the ID.
    "Wherever I go .. That's where I'll be!"

 

 
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