May 08, 2012, 03:08 PM
Never mind....he batted left and threw right..lol
May 08, 2012, 03:39 PM
Speaking of Grain Elevetors, my focus will be with those that have an "Offset Copula," which is what the upper portion of the structure is called. I will also be looking for "Squat Copulas" vs "Tall Copulas." I have already discovered that the majority of them have "Tall" ones. The copula in the photograph is "Offset and Squat."
Types of Elevators:
Despite the CPR's demand for standard elevators, there was considerable variation in profile, height and storage capacity of the earliest elevators, especially in Manitoba. The first grain elevator, a wooden, silo-like building, was constructed in 1879 by William Hespeler at Niverville. A more familiar form made its appearance in 1881 at Gretna when Ogilvie Milling Company built a wooden, square, 25 000-bushel elevator. While companies like Ogilvie preferred an elevator with a pyramidal roof and a centrally located pyramidal-roofed cupola, others opted for an offset cupola. Yet other companies chose a gable roof with a gable-roofed cupola. Although some companies in Saskatchewan and Alberta preferred a pyramidal- roofed elevator and cupola, by the 1920s most companies were building the standard, or traditional, 30 - 40 000-bushel elevator with a gable roof and a gable-roofed cupola. Dimensions varied according to bushel capacity but were typically 33 x 32 feet, which gave the elevator a height of more than 80 feet. No other building dominated the skyline as did the elevator.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; May 08, 2012 at 03:58 PM.
May 08, 2012, 04:26 PM
I realize the picture below is not of the elevator in question. I'm only posting it as a possible clue. The elevator pictured is/was located in Linzburg, Illinois and, if nothing else, establishes that elevators with squat and offset copulas can be found and did exist at some point in the midwest. But finding the exact one will be like looking for a needle in a haystack. (Pun intended).
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; May 08, 2012 at 04:31 PM.
May 08, 2012, 05:54 PM
I don't want to jump the gun here, and won't. Nor do I intend to post a picture of every grain elevator I find which looks similar. However, I just gotta say that Illinois and Indiana are looking like very strong candidates. I've already found enough elevator pictures from those two states to fully establish that that form of structure was definitely popular there in the early part of the 20th century. So much so in fact, that I'm going to switch gears for the time being and see what I can find related to Illinois and Indiana baseball ~ Major/Minor/Farm/Bush/Training ~ Anything and everything.
Thanks for allowing me to indulge myself here. It's what I do best!
May 08, 2012, 06:10 PM
I realize this isn't an exact match, but imagine what this elevator might look like if viewed from the opposite side beyond the trees. And its taller than it looks - the Pepsi machine in front is at least 6' foot high. I estimate the entire structure to be about 70' feet high. This is typical of what I have been seeing from Indiana and Illinois.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; May 08, 2012 at 08:21 PM.
May 08, 2012, 09:40 PM
Believe it or not there are actually people who collect pictures of old grain elevators. I sent inquiries to several of them and just received this reply from a guy named Bruce.
Great old photo. I suspect your thinking of the midwest around 1910 for the photo is close. The style of the elevators is definitely more midwest than west but there's no way to be specific, even specific enough to state level. About that time there were probably close to 20,000 elevators in the U.S., most of them in the midwest. I have acquired some old grain elevator photos that all I can do in my cataloging is call them "unidentified." That's not real satisfying but sometimes I have to accept that status. Wish I could be of more help ...
Well, at least I know what I'm up against now. I only have about 19,999 more pictures to look at. No problem! It will only take me the rest of my life. But I'm not giving up or allowing it to discourage me. Somebody out there probably sees that old elevator every day. So all I have to do now is find that "one" person.
May 08, 2012, 10:02 PM
Here's another reply I received ...
I have not photographed anything in Illinois or Indiana. Looking at your images, I couldn't pin point where this elevator was located. I'm sorry that I am not much help. I am wondering if the photo isn't from the 1920's or 1930's? The way the elevator is constructed, it does not appear that it was built around 1900 or even 1910. It's the headhouse that leads me thinking that it was built later. Plus, the corrugated siding is on it, too. Most elevators that were built during the period of 1900-1920 were built from wood with no siding applied to the wood, like they did in later years. Give me some more time to think about this. On the down side, that elevator is probably not standing today. It probably has either been torn down or it burnt.
I am writing a friend of mine. I will see what he says about when corrugated siding was first used on elevators. I will send your e-mail to him. Maybe he has some ideas. I wish I could have given you a better idea.
May 08, 2012, 10:47 PM
I'm not sure when metal siding was first used on grain elevators, but I did find this ...
Corrugated Galvanized Iron (CGI) was invented in the 1820s in Britain by Henry Palmer.
Wrought iron CGI was gradually replaced by mild steel from around the 1890s.
Corrugated galvanised iron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
corrugated tin roofing
May 08, 2012, 11:36 PM
possibly fogured out location of photo
I beleive the picture was taken in Chioko, Minnesota.
A small city, but an important stop on the Great Northern Railway. During the era your picture was taken, most teams traveled by train, so Chokio seems like a good possibility. The town has a rich baseball heritage and I've seen at least 5 different grain elevators in pictures of Chokio, and the train station was located night next to the elevators.
Old Chokio, MN photos -----here's a pic of the 1937 Chokio baseball team. Note the player on the top row right- he's wearing a belt and also has the same style cap, so these types of uniforms were worn at least up until the 1930s at a amateur or high school level.
Old Chokio, MN photos -----here's a picture of 5 grain elevators in a row in Chokio...notice that each one is in a different shape. In your picture, there appears to be a second elevator of a different shape to the right of the main elevator. In your picture, the main elevator is a lighter color to the elevator on the right. If you look closely at the picture of Chokio's elevators, at the very end is a light elevator standing next to a darker elevator.
In the below picture, you'll see a modern view of one of the elevators in Chokio, flanked by trees which look to be of the same species as the trees in the baseball pic. Also, if you look to the left of the main elevator in the baseball pic, in the background there appears to be the same type of short, squat storage silo in the background, like in the modern pic. In the modern pic, you'll also notice that to the right there is a large empty field (ideal for baseball).
Google Image Result for http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/60930454.jpg
But the MOST convincing evidence can be found by looking at a satellite map of Chokio (Panoramio - Photo of Chokio Grain Elevator). If you look at the map, you'll see that First Ave. runs along the grain elevators, and directly below the elevators, a BASEBALL FIELD can be found on Second Avenue, about 100 yards or so from the elevators, just like in the baseball pic.
By comparing all of these locations, the baseball player in your picture would be standing just beyond the right field fence of the Chioko baseball field, where the white house in the satellite image currently stands. This angle would justify the two different colored grain elevators in the baseball pic and the short silo. If my theory is correct, the photographer would be shooting the picture facing north (north by northeast, to be exact). Since baseball games and practices are often late afternoon affairs, and since the sun sets in the west, this explains the shadow to the right of the ballplayer.
May 09, 2012, 12:17 AM
I see some of what you mentioned, but will need more time to digest everything. Take a look at the picture below and, if possible, save it and then paint X's or reference numbers on the exact locations you are referring to. I see the modern baseball field to the southwest between 3rd and 4th Ave, but I'm not sure what you are referring to as a baseball field on 2nd Ave.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; May 09, 2012 at 12:39 AM.
May 09, 2012, 02:41 AM
I don't wish to throw a monkey wrench into the works, but after doing some extensive research on photography, I am about 95% certain that my photograph is an "Albumen" print. Which, if I'm correct, means it is very likely to be late 1800s or very early 1900s. I'm not entirely sure how to prove this, but based on everything I have learned and by comparing it to old family photos that I'm sure of regarding the dates, I have every reason to believe it is a genuine albumen photograph. The following link is one of the best I have seen on how to properly identify the age of various photographs, and is about the only way I know of to make my point. Open the link and then click on 7) Albumen. The six most distinctive features that indicate my photo is an albumen are ...
1. Super thin paper. And I mean "Super thin."
2. Sepia toned (Brownish).
3. I can "see" traces of paper fibers with a magnifying glass.
4. Textured, fiberous paper. Not smooth or glossy in any manner.
5. Slightly hand colored. Look real close and you will see a hint of green in the grass.
6. Slightly pinkish.
Check out number 7) on the link and you will have a better understanding of what I'm trying to say.
Link: How to Date, Identify and Authenticate Photographs / Authenticating Photographs (Cycleback.com)
So what does this mean if I'm correct? It means my photograph and the player pictured are very, very likely ...
I may need to have it examined by a photo expert eventually, but in the meantime I'm going to restructure my searches back to ...
I'll be back.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; May 09, 2012 at 11:11 AM.
May 09, 2012, 03:01 AM
Being the inquisitive sort, this whole thing has me quite interested. In an earlier post I believe you said you could make out CH--- on the building. I've looked up the names of every town and city in the Midwest, and Chokio is the only town in a Midwest state with 5 letters with a grain elevator (of course, it could also be a county or township name).
Another reason I'm leaning toward Chokio is because it is on the western side of MN, which was home to the Red River Valley League, which had minor league teams in nearby Fergus Falls, Moorhead, and Brekenridge in the late 1890s. Since most of these teams consisted of "local boys", that might explain why the picture was taken. I've been able to find the 1897 rosters of 2 of the 3 teams so far. Since 1897 was the league's only season, it would fit the time frame of the photo.
It seems that the lettering on the grain elevator is the key to cracking this case.
Last edited by zendog64; May 09, 2012 at 03:04 AM.
May 09, 2012, 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by zendog64
I agree 100%! So I either need a stronger magnifying glass or a "microscope." There are definitely words on the building. And after zoom in on it a jillion times, I still believe the first two letters are Ch Chokio? Could be!
May 09, 2012, 08:53 AM
I'm afraid that I can't add much to the photo but I do want to commend you for your excellent research! I'm impressed. You are relentless!!!! Tennessee digger
May 09, 2012, 10:49 AM
How'z about posting the roster you mentioned or a link to it for us to check out? The dates sound about right and it might lead to another clue or two. And thanks for helping to solve this. I know first hand the time it requires to hunt something down and then try to make sense of it. Much appreciated.
tennessee digger ~
Thanks for the kudos. I'll try not to disappoint your confidence in me. And actually, you can help. Since everyone knows as much about the photo now as I do, and can examine and judge it for themselves, how'z about sharing your opinion as to what you think the age of the player is?
16 or 36? Or somewhere in between? I won't say what I think and will let you be the first to respond.
Last edited by SODABOTTLEBOB; May 09, 2012 at 11:05 AM.
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