need help to id clip
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  1. #1
    us
    Sep 2010
    quincy il
    WHITES DFX
    17

    need help to id clip

    i dug this today it say pat feb 5yh 1888 and it has a name wizard on it i hope someone can id it for me thanks troy
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  2. #2
    us
    Mar 2009
    Illinois
    Minelab Explorer II
    14
    1 times
    This is a cuff clip, used for cheating at card games. Worn inside the sleeve and holds a playing card.
    Whites 64T - - 1969-2001
    Bounty Hunter 840 - - abt 1980-1982
    Whites Spectrum XLT - - 2001-2002
    White's 2900 Trooper - - 2007-now
    Whites 6000D series 3 - - 2009-now
    Minelab Explorer II - - 2012-now

    And I still don't know what I am doing.........

  3. #3
    um
    Jul 2004
    South Florida Cesspool
    Tesoro Sand Shark, Whites M6
    17,724
    9916 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Good ID labrat. It looks in great condition for a dug piece.

  4. #4
    us
    Tennessee Digger

    Sep 2011
    Nashville
    Tesoro and Troy Shadow Fisher Gold Bug Pro Minelab Equinox 600.
    1,651
    681 times
    Labrat did a great job on the ID. I would have never guessed it. Tennessee digger

  5. #5
    us
    Sep 2010
    quincy il
    WHITES DFX
    17
    hay thanks labrat i really appreciate the id thanks again troy,

  6. #6
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Sorry guys its NOT a device used to cheat at cards. Thats a rumor that has been spreading around the internet.

    Its a cuff holder, nothing more, and was sold in the Sears in Roebuck mail order catalogue.

  7. #7
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Im not saying that someone may have tried to used a cuff holder to hide a card but that is not the proper ID. Cuffs were attached seperately. Back in the day, gentlemen used suspenders and clips to hold on collars, pants and socks as well as cuffs.

    Heres is a page from Sears Roebuck and Co. 1909 catalog. You can see cuffs were available in linen, celluloid and rubber as well as collars. Look bottom left for the patented Wizard clip.


    I posted the patent on several other threads and there is no mention of card cheating in the original text. The internet is a superfast and valuable resource but many times misinformation is repeated.

    Please reply that you acknowlege or disagree. So many members lately ignore what they do not want to hear. If you think its solved, post the green check (solved)from the thread tool drop down menu. And if you like the work I do here, click on like. Thanks.
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    Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; Jun 16, 2012 at 05:32 PM. Reason: added images
    leprechaun, ffuries and K Zack like this.

  8. #8
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    The patent I posted above is not the same but has a good diagram so I used it. There were many patented cuff fasteners. READ THIS PLEASE "Common Sense" card cheater cuff link

    Its a very nice find and in good condition.

    Attachment 641380
    Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; May 31, 2012 at 04:06 PM.
    DeeDee likes this.

  9. #9
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    A quick search reveals many cuff holder/fastener patents as would be expected. I did not find an 1888 patent but there are many and they are all similar with no mention of card cheating.

    Here is a FEB 5 1889 cuff fastener patent Patent US397119 - HENRY C - Google Patents

  10. #10
    um
    Jul 2004
    South Florida Cesspool
    Tesoro Sand Shark, Whites M6
    17,724
    9916 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    LOL. Looks like you've been down this road before BigC. "Common Sense" card cheater cuff link Thanks for the update and clarification on the ID. Just goes to show, don't believe the first results you find on the internet and especially Ebay.

  11. #11
    us
    Sep 2010
    quincy il
    WHITES DFX
    17
    i looked at it again to make fgor shure it wasnt 1889 its feb 5th 1888 thats still pretty neet tho they prob did use em back then to cheat at cards,, i live on the missippi river so that makes since
    Last edited by TROY V; May 31, 2012 at 07:23 PM.

  12. #12
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by TROY V View Post
    i looked at it again to make fgor shure it wasnt 1889 its feb 5th 1888 thats still pretty neet tho they prob did use em back then to cheat at cards,, i live on the missippi river so that makes since
    Did you read my posts at all? I seriously doubt that these were used to cheat at cards. First of all, in the late 1800/early 1900s everybody knows these were for cuffs. So if it was used for card cheating, it would have to be in the modern era. Try it yourself. You will probably have a hard time removing the clip and if caught with this contraption up your sleeve, you would be kicked out of the game for being a bozo...or worse.

    As far as the date, there were many many variations of cuff holders and I didnt find this patent date but errors are possible. I have seen errors before.. I dont think any more evidence is needed, Sears Roebuck clearly sold a matching Wizard in 1909 and its not for cards. BUT you need to read it with an open mind and/or comprehend it.

    I understand your disappointment. Everybody wants their finds to be special and to think a riverboat gambler used this in a card game is exciting. A riverboat gambler may have used this to hold his cuff in place but I seriously doubt he used it for gambling. Either way card cheating was not the manufacturers intended purpose. Its a nice find nonetheless.
    Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; May 31, 2012 at 08:12 PM.

  13. #13
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    If you look at the diagram you will see the similarity and how it works.

    Attachment 641449

    THE WIZARD

    If you ever searched eBay for "card cheating" you probably stumbled up on several sellers offering a nifty-looking clip that has the word WIZARD stamped on it. There is even a patent number stamped on the other side of the little Wizard. And the usual eBay description is that this is an old gamblers' cheating device, called a holdout. These nifty little Wizards usually sell for 10 to 20 bucks, but I have seen them go for over $80 apiece. If you ever purchased one of those Wizards, I'm afraid you've been had.

    The Wizard is not a holdout device, has never been used or even intended to be used as a holdout device and it was not designed or made for that purpose. In fact anyone trying to sell one of these Wizards, as card-cheating devices, around the late 1800's or early 1900's, would have hade trouble making a sale. Not because at that time there was no eBay to sell these things through, but rather because at that time everyone knew what these gadgets were really for.

    So, if the old Wizard is not a holdout device, what is it?

    Well, the Wizard is just a cuff holder - not a card holdout. In the old days, gentleman used to wear shirts with detachable collars and cuffs. When the collar and cuffs got dirty (and we all know those are the part of a shirt that get soiled first) the person could just remove them and replace them with fresh ones. This way gentleman could always maintain the appearance of wearing a fresh shirt.
    Last edited by Bigcypresshunter; May 31, 2012 at 09:37 PM.
    Montauk likes this.

  14. #14
    us
    Mar 2009
    Illinois
    Minelab Explorer II
    14
    1 times
    Thank you, I have been corrected. I will admit on this one I was lazy and just checked the internet. I do have a large library of reference books and old catalogs and I did not check for confirmation. Once again, Thanks for the truth.
    Whites 64T - - 1969-2001
    Bounty Hunter 840 - - abt 1980-1982
    Whites Spectrum XLT - - 2001-2002
    White's 2900 Trooper - - 2007-now
    Whites 6000D series 3 - - 2009-now
    Minelab Explorer II - - 2012-now

    And I still don't know what I am doing.........

  15. #15
    us
    #BigCypressSwamp

    Dec 2004
    South Florida
    70's Whites TM Amphibian, HH Pulse, Ace 250
    26,758
    2911 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    ATT. Moderator it seems that many of my images have disappeared. A lot of hard work for nothing. I tried to clean up my inbox in my profile so I can receive PMs. Members are telling me my inbox was full and they were losing everything they took so much time writing to me.

    I tried to clean it up and I also tried to clean up something stored under attachments in my profile. By cleaning up my profile, I may have deleted my images on the What Is It Forum. To me this is crazy. Too many useless features IMO. But whatever, Im just writing in an attempt that you may be able to retreive the lost images and return them to their proper places. Thanks.

 

 
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