Shotgun shell question

[cti4sw]

What were shotgun shells made of before they used plastic?

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[Wily Dunk]

I've seen shotgun shells made out of a thick paper or a really thin cardboard..

[ticm]

http://www.rbs0.com/shotshell.htm

[TheCannonballGuy]

The info at the link posted by Ticm is correct. I'll add:
The very first ones (1860s) -- such as those made by Eley of London -- had a short brass base with paper/cardboard body. Afterward, in the 1870s, a few (quite rare) all-brass ones were also made. Then in the early 20th-century some were made entirely of aluminum, but those too are quite rare. In summary... from their advent in the 1860s until plastic-bodied one were introduced in the latter half of the 20th-century, the vast majority of shotgun shells has a paper/cardboard body with a short brass base.

[kuger]

We find the complete brass ones on ocassion.We stumbled onto a homesite years back,that produced about 30 of them

[cti4sw]

Here's why I asked... I found these in a wooded area between a park and a golf course... Not exactly a place one could hunt without being noticed (and arrested). The modern rounds are mine and shown for comparison.




I'm guessing this is a .45 shell, here it is next to a .44 in my revolver, and as you can see it doesn't quite fit.

I guess that could be due to corrosion, and idk whether calibers have had size variations over the years, but I'm pretty sure it's a .45. Thoughts?

The info at the link posted by Ticm is correct. I'll add:
The very first ones (1860s) -- such as those made by Eley of London -- had a short brass base with paper/cardboard body. Afterward, in the 1870s, a few (quite rare) all-brass ones were also made. Then in the early 20th-century some were made entirely of aluminum, but those too are quite rare. In summary... from their advent in the 1860s until plastic-bodied one were introduced in the latter half of the 20th-century, the vast majority of shotgun shells has a paper/cardboard body with a short brass base.

Did they all, from conception to present, have the same basic shell design? Like, if I compared a modern shell base (where the brand etching, gauge, and primer is) to an old one from the 1800s, would it be easily distinguishable?

[mick56]

I found an all brass one on an old homestead. The old farmer told me that he remembered using all brass ones in the 1930's. The base says Winchester No. 12. I Googled about it, and it seems that buckshot came in the all brass shells.

[cti4sw]

The ones I found today I think were the paper ones, there is absolutely NOTHING left except the rims and the wadding around the primer. So definitely pre-1960, which is cool I guess (being at least 50 years old), but would have loved to find an all-brass like yours. What do you do with them when you find them? I'll probably just trash mine, they're not quite in keeper condition anyway.

[mick56]

I tumbled it with my pennies to clean it up a little, now I'll just throw it in my brass recycle pail.

[fyrffytr1]

some people see how many different shotshell bases they can find. I throw all mine in the "keep but don't display" box. One day I may go through them and make a display.

[uglymailman]

could the base shown w/ your hand gun be .410? Somewhere around .44 or .45 a .410 will chamber. They are used in 2 shot derringer's but I would advise against touching one off.

[cti4sw]

could the base shown w/ your hand gun be .410? Somewhere around .44 or .45 a .410 will chamber. They are used in 2 shot derringer's but I would advise against touching one off.

Wouldn't a .410 fit into a .44 chamber? Logically I'd think a .44 would be larger than a .410. This just barely wouldnt fit into my .44 revolver, which is why I'd thought it was a .45, but I'm no ammunition expert.

[NOLA_Ken]

,410 and .45 long colt are the two calibers that those little derringer type knuckle busters shoot. The one in the pic with the revolver is most likely a .410. you'd need to measure the diameter to be certain, but the only other shotshell remotely close is the 28 guage, which is around .55 cal.

The all brass shells really aren't all that rare, and in fact you can buy brand new ones today. They are pretty pricey though..... Magtech Shotshell Hulls 12 Ga 2-1/2 Brass

[Jarl]

So you found a 'Peter's' shell end, I have one or two of them I found. The history in the company is interesting. Peters Cartridge Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[NOLA_Ken]

Just for fun here's a couple with the cardboard hull still intact. The green one is a Remington Express Extra Long Range, and the red one is a Winchester Western Super X No.6 Shot. Both of these are 12 gauge.


Also I figured I'd add here, the reason a .410 will fit in a .45 but not a .44 is that .410 is the internal dimension of the shell not the outer. The outside of the shell is .446 just a bit to big for the .44.

[cti4sw]

Also I figured I'd add here, the reason a .410 will fit in a .45 but not a .44 is that .410 is the internal dimension of the shell not the outer. The outside of the shell is .446 just a bit to big for the .44.

That does explain it. I do believe my shell has to be a .410. I am still curious as to why only the bottom half-inch of the shell remains, were all shotgun shell gauges made the same way with the wax paper?

[NOLA_Ken]

Yeah for quite a while all commercial shotshells were paper with either a "low brass" or "high brass" depending on the powder charge. It was cheaper than the all brass shells. I'm not really sure when plastic shells started to be made.

[WINTERBEAR]

I tumbled it with my pennies to clean it up a little, now I'll just throw it in my brass recycle pail.

i WOULDN'T DO THAT THEY ARE WORTH A FEW BUCKS AT LEAST
chris

[stefen]

What were shotgun shells made of before they used plastic?

Thick walled paper (waxed) 'NITRO' shells, and brass tubing...

Still have a few red paper 12G in my kip bag...maybe mid to later 1980's

No longer legal because of lead shot...lead is now banned because of poisoning to water fowl, Eagles and vultures...

[Charlie P. (NY)]

You got it. Brass, then paper (hard fiber), then plastic.

Lead is still plenty legal in all states except California - just not for migratory waterfowl. I hunt grouse, bunnies and squirrel with a lead shot flinging flintlock fowler. I have about 80 pounds of shot and another 100 pounds of cast ball for muzzleloaders. Just in case NY gets dumb ideas.