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Thread: .45 Casing Frankford Arsenal Dated January 1912

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  1. #1
    us
    Mar 2017
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    .45 Casing Frankford Arsenal Dated January 1912

    Hello, I have an old .45 casing from the Frankford Arsenal that is dated January 1912. I know the US military began using the M1911 around this time and was wondering if anybody knows if the US military was using .45 rounds like this before the M1911 entered service.

    Thank you.

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  2. #2
    us
    Frank

    Jun 2013
    Jefferson City, Tennessee
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    Yep, the Colt M1905 which was mainly a Prototype and forerunner to the M1911.


    Frank
    TheCannonballGuy likes this.
    U.S. Army Veteran (Nov. 27, 1972 to Mar. 30, 1978) and Retired Federal Government Employee with total Federal Service of over 38 years. I am a Coin Collector and Coin Researcher at heart with my main interests in Error & Variety Coins. However, I also love Gold and Gem Prospecting, Metal Detecting when and where I can, Ginseng and other Herb Hunting, Long Range Shooting, Hunting and Fishing.

  3. #3
    us
    Mar 2017
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    Yes, thats right. I knew there were other pistols. Is that all, though? I know these .45s were later used in submachineguns, like the Tommy gun, but is that it? Were there any other .45 weapons used at his time by our military?. And do you know if the bullets for the M1905 and the M1911 were exactly the same? I imagine they were, just wondering.

  4. #4
    us
    When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro...I am a wealth of mostly trivial information.....

    Jan 2011
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    When the 1911 was formally adopted it became the standard military sidearm, there were several others considered though, including a .45 cal Luger, I think the earlier Colts saw some continued service but they were all phased out withing a short time. The Thompson came around in 1921, but wasn't adopted by the military until 1938. As far as I can think of there were no other sub guns used by the US military until then.
    Old Pueblo likes this.
    "That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX

    some of my antique photo collection : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/

  5. #5
    Charter Member
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Pueblo View Post
    Yes, thats right. I knew there were other pistols. Is that all, though? I know these .45s were later used in submachineguns, like the Tommy gun, but is that it? Were there any other .45 weapons used at his time by our military?. And do you know if the bullets for the M1905 and the M1911 were exactly the same? I imagine they were, just wondering.
    Yes, there were a number of .45 caliber weapons, however your case is for a semi auto, and there were no other semi autos. Started 1870's with the Colt revolver and the Schofield revolver which are two .45 caliber pistols I can think of. Also the 45-70 rifle, the 45-55 carbine and there was a Gatling gun I think in 45-70. I know there was a 50 caliber Gatling gun. The empty brass on all those is totally different than what you have.
    Due to the high price of ammunition there will be no warning shot.

  6. #6
    us
    Frank

    Jun 2013
    Jefferson City, Tennessee
    JW Fisher Pulse 8X; Minelab CTX 3030 & Sovereign Elite; White's GMT, Beach Hunter Id, Surf PI, Coinmaster Classic II, 6000 Di S2, an old GM 66-T with 5 coils & GM 65-T with 3 coils.
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    Yes the M1905 Pistols and M1911 Pistols shot the same cartridge, the .45 ACP! In 1909, the U.S. Army adopted and used a .45 M1909 Cartridge used in the Colt New Service Revolvers which was vitually identical to the .45 Colt Cartridge. The M1909 Cartridge replaced the .45 M1887 Military Ball Cartridge which replaced both the .45 Colt Cartridge for the Colt 1873 Peacemakers and the .45 Schofield Cartridge for the Smith & Wesson Schofield Revolvers used by the U.S. Army as the (corrected) M1909 could be used in both revolvers with no problems. Most of these noted Pistols and Revolvers were used by the U.S. Army well beyond the adoption and use of the M1911.


    Frank

    P.S. Sorry BosnMate! I was typing and checking sources while you were apparently posting.
    Last edited by huntsman53; Mar 20, 2017 at 11:07 AM.
    U.S. Army Veteran (Nov. 27, 1972 to Mar. 30, 1978) and Retired Federal Government Employee with total Federal Service of over 38 years. I am a Coin Collector and Coin Researcher at heart with my main interests in Error & Variety Coins. However, I also love Gold and Gem Prospecting, Metal Detecting when and where I can, Ginseng and other Herb Hunting, Long Range Shooting, Hunting and Fishing.

  7. #7
    us
    Mar 2017
    Arizona
    281
    180 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Thats guys. This is great information. So would it be safe to say that since this .45 ACP is from the Frankford Arsenal and dated January 1912, that is made for use in the M1905 or the M1911?

  8. #8
    us
    When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro...I am a wealth of mostly trivial information.....

    Jan 2011
    New Orleans
    Garrett Ace 350 and Propointer, Whites Prism
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Pueblo View Post
    Thats guys. This is great information. So would it be safe to say that since this .45 ACP is from the Frankford Arsenal and dated January 1912, that is made for use in the M1905 or the M1911?
    Most likely yes.
    Old Pueblo likes this.
    "That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX

    some of my antique photo collection : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/

  9. #9
    us
    Mar 2017
    Arizona
    281
    180 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Thanks again, guys. You have been a lot of help so far, but Ive got plenty more old bullets and stuff to ask about.

  10. #10
    us
    Mar 2017
    Arizona
    281
    180 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Oh and here is another question for anybody to answer.

    Does anyone know when that little space (as seen on this .45) in between the shaft of the casing and the bottom where the headstamp is, was first used on ammunition? And what is that called, if anything?

  11. #11
    us
    When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro...I am a wealth of mostly trivial information.....

    Jan 2011
    New Orleans
    Garrett Ace 350 and Propointer, Whites Prism
    4,374
    2373 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Pueblo View Post
    Oh and here is another question for anybody to answer.

    Does anyone know when that little space (as seen on this .45) in between the shaft of the casing and the bottom where the headstamp is, was first used on ammunition? And what is that called, if anything?
    It's called an "extractor groove" they are found on "rimless" and "semi rimless" cartridges, I'm not certain when exactly they were invented offhand, but I want to say 1880's roughly?

    The reason for the groove.... Rimmed ammunition stacks kinda odd in a magazine, while rimless ammunition loads fairly flat in the mag. With rimmed ammo, the extractor can just grab the rim of the casing, but in order to get the casing to extract with no rim they had to add the groove for the extractor to have somewhere to grab on to.
    Last edited by NOLA_Ken; Mar 24, 2017 at 10:08 PM.
    TheCannonballGuy likes this.
    "That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX

    some of my antique photo collection : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/

 

 

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