German Weyersberg Kirschbaum & CO Solingen Bayonet
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Thread: German Weyersberg Kirschbaum & CO Solingen Bayonet

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  1. #1

    Sep 2017
    5
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    German Weyersberg Kirschbaum & CO Solingen Bayonet

    I was given this bayonet a couple years ago and I didnít think much of it. But recently I rubbed some rust off and discovered it has Weyersberg Kirschbaum & CO Solingen on it. I looked up the company and found out it was a German bayonet probably made around the early 1900s. Iíve found nothing else about this type specifically. Can someone tell me more about this bayonet?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    us
    Ben from NH, the Z means nothing

    Dec 2004
    Brentwood, NH
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    Looks like a shortened model 1891 Mauser bayonet. If you can find other markings it may help determine a bit more of it's history. Many of the aluminum handled ones were sold to the Argentinine military, which would be confirmed if (as I think maybe I see) there is an oval with the letters RA on the handle.
    Last edited by nhbenz; Sep 21, 2017 at 10:03 AM.
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  3. #3
    Charter Member
    us
    An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

    Oct 2004
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    Yes, as 'nhbenz' mentioned, this bayonet appears to be a shortened model of the M1891 model. This shortened model is called the ďM1891/31 Engineer's CarbineĒ model. Its blade length is 9.75 inches versus 15.75 inches for theM1891. The ď31Ē designation marked the year (1931) when the longer blade bayonet was modified to the shortened blade.
    Don.......
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  4. #4

    Feb 2017
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    641 times
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    I beg to differ.

    The south american Solingen bayos (mostly sold as scary nazi knife to uniformed souvenir hunters) all have a spear point, be they long or short.

    This looks to me as if it was shortened do-it-yourself. Either after the war to make the long thing into a useable hunging/carry knife or it may even be an orginal piece from the first WW (dont know if the Germans used the posh export quality alu grips). I know that a lot of shortening and sharpening went on in the trenches and backcountry to get useable fighting knifes.

    Greets Namxat

    P.S: nice piece, polished and sharpend you could well use it today.
    DeathByMayson likes this.

  5. #5

    Sep 2017
    5
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbenz View Post
    Looks like a shortened model 1891 Mauser bayonet. If you can find other markings it may help determine a bit more of it's history. Many of the aluminum handled ones were sold to the Argentinine military, which would be confirmed if (as I think maybe I see) there is an oval with the letters RA on the handle.
    Indeed it does have RA on the handle

  6. #6

    Sep 2017
    5
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by namxat View Post
    I beg to differ.

    The south american Solingen bayos (mostly sold as scary nazi knife to uniformed souvenir hunters) all have a spear point, be they long or short.

    This looks to me as if it was shortened do-it-yourself. Either after the war to make the long thing into a useable hunging/carry knife or it may even be an orginal piece from the first WW (dont know if the Germans used the posh export quality alu grips). I know that a lot of shortening and sharpening went on in the trenches and backcountry to get useable fighting knifes.

    Greets Namxat

    P.S: nice piece, polished and sharpend you could well use it today.
    Yeah, I put it in vinegar which got most of the rust off without damaging it and it is beautiful.

  7. #7
    us
    When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro...I am a wealth of mostly trivial information.....

    Jan 2011
    Formerly New Orleans.. Now Pueblo Co
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    It's a shame it's been cut off. but I see a lot of those old bayonets that were cut down into hunting knives or for other common use when they went out of service. I really strips away pretty much all of the collector interest, unless it can be proven to be a field modification, like a broken bayonet cut into a fighting knife.

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1496707 uncut....

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ID:	1496708and the rifle it was made for
    "That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX

    I collect military relics, mainly German and American, but interested in others as well, pre 1945 .. Always interested in adding to my collection

    some of my antique photo collection : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/



  8. #8
    Charter Member
    us
    An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

    Oct 2004
    N. San Diego area (Pic of my two best 'finds'; son and grandson)
    Minelab Explorer
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    namxat,
    I agree that both models were originally spear tipped. I also think that with the discover of the "RA" inside an oval makes this a modified (shortened and retipped) M1891. (The "RA"mark representing 'Republica Argentino'.) One online mentions: "Most M1891 rifles and bayonets were exported to the USA in the 1950s and 1960s, when Argentine export laws required that the national crest be ground away before being sold."
    Don.......

  9. #9
    us
    coppersmith

    Oct 2013
    brunswick md
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  10. #10
    us
    When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro...I am a wealth of mostly trivial information.....

    Jan 2011
    Formerly New Orleans.. Now Pueblo Co
    Garrett Ace 350 and Propointer
    5,133
    3908 times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackaydon View Post
    namxat,
    I agree that both models were originally spear tipped. I also think that with the discover of the "RA" inside an oval makes this a modified (shortened and retipped) M1891. (The "RA"mark representing 'Republica Argentino'.) One online mentions: "Most M1891 rifles and bayonets were exported to the USA in the 1950s and 1960s, when Argentine export laws required that the national crest be ground away before being sold."
    Don.......
    Both of the short versions of this bayonet has a much different tip. The "Engineers Carbine" version is the one that keeps the hooked quillion, Many of the 1891 bayonets were modified in the 1960's for use with M1 Carbines that the US sold as surplus, those are significantly different from this one though. Here's a pic of the engineers carbine version and from the tip is pretty clear that DeathByMayson's blade isn't an arsenal modification :

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by NOLA_Ken; Sep 22, 2017 at 06:05 PM.
    "That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX

    I collect military relics, mainly German and American, but interested in others as well, pre 1945 .. Always interested in adding to my collection

    some of my antique photo collection : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/



  11. #11

    Sep 2017
    5
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by NOLA_Ken View Post
    Both of the short versions of this bayonet has a much different tip. The "Engineers Carbine" version is the one that keeps the hooked quillion, Many of the 1891 bayonets were modified in the 1960's for use with M1 Carbines that the US sold as surplus, those are significantly different from this one though. Here's a pic of the carbine version and from the tip is pretty clear that DeathByMayson's blade isn't an arsenal modification :

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	91bayo short.jpg 
Views:	59 
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ID:	1496763
    So when and where do you think it was made?
    And is there any way to determine if it was shortened by a soldier compared to a hunter?
    Last edited by DeathByMayson; Sep 22, 2017 at 07:36 AM.

  12. #12
    us
    When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro...I am a wealth of mostly trivial information.....

    Jan 2011
    Formerly New Orleans.. Now Pueblo Co
    Garrett Ace 350 and Propointer
    5,133
    3908 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by DeathByMayson View Post
    So when and where do you think it was made?
    And is there any way to determine if it was shortened by a soldier compared to a hunter?
    It was made in Germany, the aluminum grip scales date it between 1893 -98, bayonets of this type made in 1892- early 1893 will have brass grip scales. In total there were 190,000 of the aluminum grip model and 40,000 of the brass grip model made, so it would be a desirable bayonet in good uncut condition. Sadly there is no way to know when it was cut down to its present length. For every genuine "bayonet cut down to fighting knife" there are a hundred forgeries and fakes. It would take having confirmed provenance like a photo of a soldier with the knife visible to convince a collector.

    Even with no real collector value it's still a pretty cool piece, and to me it would be worth putting an edge on it and having a scabbard made to use as a camping knife.
    Mackaydon likes this.
    "That's me, on the beach side combing the sand, metal meter in my hand, sporting a pocket full of change"...... NOFX

    I collect military relics, mainly German and American, but interested in others as well, pre 1945 .. Always interested in adding to my collection

    some of my antique photo collection : http://forgottonimages.tumblr.com/



 

 

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