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Thread: .69 Caliber Musket Identification

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  1. #1
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    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

    Feb 2013
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    .69 Caliber Musket Identification

    I bought this musket today for 160 dollars, my first firearm. It looks to be converted into a percussion cap musket, from a flintlock one. Very ornate, around 57 or 58 inches long. Very cool to actually have a gun that could have fired the musket balls I find.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    RTR, cw0909, Kray Gelder and 2 others like this.
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
    40 Musket Balls
    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
    16 1700s Buckles 1 silver
    2 1700s spigot
    3 Thimbles 1 silver
    Cleaning Finds:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  2. #2
    RTR
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    Roger

    Nov 2017
    Smith Mt. Lake Va.
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    Nice....Do you plan on shooting it ? Is it a replica ?
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  3. #3
    us
    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

    Feb 2013
    New England, Somewhere Metal Detecting in the Woods
    Teknetics T2 SE (DST) Spare Teknetics T2 SE (backup) 15" T2 coil Pro-Pointer Bounty Hunter Pioneer 202 Fisher F2 Fisher F-Point
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTR View Post
    Nice....Do you plan on shooting it ? Is it a replica ?
    Thanks! It's authentic, with the wood in pretty rough shape with big gouges and a crack or two in the barrel stock. That just gives it character in my opinion though. I don't want to risk shooting it though, scared it would blow up on me. Any ideas on age?
    Kray Gelder likes this.
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
    40 Musket Balls
    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
    16 1700s Buckles 1 silver
    2 1700s spigot
    3 Thimbles 1 silver
    Cleaning Finds:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  4. #4
    us
    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

    Feb 2013
    New England, Somewhere Metal Detecting in the Woods
    Teknetics T2 SE (DST) Spare Teknetics T2 SE (backup) 15" T2 coil Pro-Pointer Bounty Hunter Pioneer 202 Fisher F2 Fisher F-Point
    4,405
    4660 times
    Coins and Relics
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    Also, Does it look to be converted from flintlock?
    Kray Gelder likes this.
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
    40 Musket Balls
    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
    16 1700s Buckles 1 silver
    2 1700s spigot
    3 Thimbles 1 silver
    Cleaning Finds:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  5. #5
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2007
    Colorado
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    Looks to be made by a J. Bishop I bet it is worth way more than you paid!

    Collectors Firearms Archives - Home
    coinman123 and Kray Gelder like this.

  6. #6
    us
    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

    Feb 2013
    New England, Somewhere Metal Detecting in the Woods
    Teknetics T2 SE (DST) Spare Teknetics T2 SE (backup) 15" T2 coil Pro-Pointer Bounty Hunter Pioneer 202 Fisher F2 Fisher F-Point
    4,405
    4660 times
    Coins and Relics
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecmjamsit View Post
    Looks to be made by a J. Bishop I bet it is worth way more than you paid!

    Collectors Firearms Archives - Home
    Wow! Thanks for finding this, very cool! How old do you think this gun is?
    Kray Gelder likes this.
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
    40 Musket Balls
    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
    16 1700s Buckles 1 silver
    2 1700s spigot
    3 Thimbles 1 silver
    Cleaning Finds:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  7. #7
    RTR
    RTR is online now
    us
    Roger

    Nov 2017
    Smith Mt. Lake Va.
    Teknetics Liberator Falcon MD-20
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I dont have any knowledge on flintlock or cap muskets.But I do know companies that sell reproduction kits will have the stock if & when you decide to replace it.A friend of mine bought & sold & put them together for 50 years.And some you cant tell the difference.Sure someone here with knowledge will chime in.
    coinman123 and Kray Gelder like this.

  8. #8
    us
    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

    Feb 2013
    New England, Somewhere Metal Detecting in the Woods
    Teknetics T2 SE (DST) Spare Teknetics T2 SE (backup) 15" T2 coil Pro-Pointer Bounty Hunter Pioneer 202 Fisher F2 Fisher F-Point
    4,405
    4660 times
    Coins and Relics
    Banner Finds (1)
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    cw0909 and Kray Gelder like this.
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
    40 Musket Balls
    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
    16 1700s Buckles 1 silver
    2 1700s spigot
    3 Thimbles 1 silver
    Cleaning Finds:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  9. #9
    Charter Member
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    "WP"

    May 2012
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    Octagon to round barrel with wedding ring transition.
    Is it smooth bore or rifled?
    A Cocker Glasgow half stock rifle build has some similarities. The back action lock ,and the pineapple end shape on the trigger guards front. ( Pineapples had meaning back when.) Though similar ,still different. The snail,around the nipple ,even the shape of pineapple differ from your piece. But the engraved guard and design hint of a similar school..

  10. #10
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    It's a back action cap lock, and no, it's not a conversion from flint. It was made that way. The back action is an invention a little later than the flint lock era. They are a fraction of a second faster than the traditional lock. I suspect, without seeing the muzzle of your gun, that is a "fowler." That just means it was built as a shotgun for hunting ducks etc.
    Another thing, just because J. Bishop is on the lock, does not mean he made the gun, it generally means he made the lock. The gun maker generally had his name on the barrel, and if made in Europe, there would be proof marks on the barrel.
    Are you positive it's .69 caliber? Did you measure the barrel?
    Last edited by BosnMate; Jan 02, 2018 at 04:33 PM.
    Due to the high price of ammunition there will be no warning shot.

  11. #11
    Charter Member
    us
    Jun 2006
    Upstate South Carolina
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    Nice piece!! You got a deal. Names on old guns can be misleading. We had a master gunsmith in our area that is quite famous locally. I got a chance to do some repair on one of his percussion rifles for a family member. It had his name on top of the barrel, but on the bottom was a company from Pennsylvania. The lock was from New York. I didn't show the relative what I had found.
    We are in a hobby that is supported by losers!!

  12. #12
    Charter Member
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    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola
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    Nice piece. Something that old should never be fired. However, if you decide to fire it please give me all the information for me to take out life and disability insurance on you. No, they really are best left unfired.
    coinman123 and Kray Gelder like this.

  13. #13
    us
    Knowledge in machine struck coinage and colonial through 1800's Relics.

    Feb 2013
    New England, Somewhere Metal Detecting in the Woods
    Teknetics T2 SE (DST) Spare Teknetics T2 SE (backup) 15" T2 coil Pro-Pointer Bounty Hunter Pioneer 202 Fisher F2 Fisher F-Point
    4,405
    4660 times
    Coins and Relics
    Banner Finds (1)
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC_0338.JPG 
Views:	48 
Size:	3.93 MB 
ID:	1533176
    2014-2017 Finds
    1700s Sundial
    165? french liard
    1696 1774 1730s 17?? copper
    1723 irish penny
    1730 KG coin toy
    2x AU 1803 LC
    1722 1/2 Penny
    1779, 1781 Real, ? 1 Real
    NJ Copper 1786
    1805,1838 LC
    26 Coppers 17 colonial
    175 1720-1850 buttons
    40 Musket Balls
    1906 1912 1934 dog Lics
    16 1700s Buckles 1 silver
    2 1700s spigot
    3 Thimbles 1 silver
    Cleaning Finds:
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/ge...ns-relics.html

  14. #14
    Charter Member
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    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola
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    Banner Finds (5)
    It may have a Damascus steel barrell. You might want to check into that.
    coinman123 and Kray Gelder like this.

  15. #15
    Charter Member
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    This might help people that aren't familiar with muzzle loading firearms.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This first picture is a flint lock. The hammer is down, directly under the flint is the "pan" for the priming powder. The "frizzen" is open. When priming powder is in the pan, the frizzen is closed. Note the spring that holds the frizzen either open or closed. That V shaped spring rules out any back action lock from having been a flint lock. Even if the lock was changed and a back action added later, the cut out inlet for the front of the flintlock would still be in the wood part of the stock.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This looks to me like a lock that has been converted from flint to cap lock. It looks like there are some remains of the frizzen, and there is evidence that there was a frizzen spring.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is another side action lock. The location of the drum and nipple, and the hole in the forward part of the lock makes it possible that this could also be a conversion from flint to caplock. But inexpensive caplock rifles were also built using a drum and nipple, so sometimes it's hard to tell if it's a conversion or not.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by BosnMate; Jan 02, 2018 at 05:14 PM.
    Due to the high price of ammunition there will be no warning shot.

 

 
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