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Thread: Found below a Native trading post

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  1. #1
    ca
    Apr 2013
    Canada
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    Found below a Native trading post

    I found this item below a Native trading post and was wondering if it could be Native, or something else. It's a little over 4" long and made of copper. Thanks guys.
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  2. #2
    Charter Member
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    Tommy

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    hmmm interesting
    Hawks88 and RelicMedic like this.
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  3. #3
    ca
    Hawks88

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    Nice find. Congrats
    RelicMedic likes this.

  4. #4
    us
    Jun 2007
    Central Wisconsin
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    Possibly a copper culture awl.
    RelicMedic likes this.

  5. #5
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    Rook

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    way ta go.
    RelicMedic likes this.
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  6. #6
    ca
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    A guy who is well versed in native artifacts said he thinks it's an awl, at least woodland time period. That's cool!

  7. #7

    Aug 2014
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    I'd expect to find a preponderance of "white man" discards surrounding a trading post. This doesn't suggest Old Copper Culture to me, (it's a 5,000 year difference in time periods, for pete's sake) and I see nothing to suggest Native involvement with this piece.

    I'd assume there were buildings of some sort in the area that no longer exist? I'm thinking the odds are far greater this is normal "white man" scatter, and if someone brought up "native", I'd calmly sit down and say, "Do tell !", ... and ... listen to the imaginative speculation with an amused twinkle in my eye.

    This would be a normal "metal age" product, ... suggestions that an Indian ever held it would fall into the category of "Yeah, nice story dude" ... but I'm not sure how anyone could take a metal age product found at a metal age era site and then try to explain who used it based on race.

    tldr:
    metal age item found at a metal age site
    After that, it becomes an endless source of intriguing campfire stories.
    (they are pretty good at analyzing copper in a lab and determining the source, including the copper deposits used during the stone age ... but, don't tell that to the speculators because you'll miss out on a bunch of good stories.)
    ToddsPoint likes this.
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  8. #8
    us
    Mar 2018
    Todds Point, IL
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    I doubt any natives ever ran trading posts. Here in IL it was the French that had the trading posts. P&P is correct. The old copper culture is way back there, like 6000 BC to 3000 BC. If it was made by an Indian it was probably pounded into shape with hammerstones. If made by a white man it would likely be cast. Closer examination is needed. It does not look green in the pics, are you sure it is even copper? Unless it was found in water it should be green. Gary

  9. #9
    ca
    Apr 2013
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    That "trading post" is local chatter. The area did have substantial Native occupancy (based on archeological digs in that area). I also found a stem point in the area. I admit that I dont know much about that time period, so dont bust my balls too bad. All I know is that its copper, found in the area of another artifact, there was aboriginal occupation there and theres a 50% chance the locals dont have a clue what they are talking about. Keep in mind, they also said the HBC had an trading post on the river, but I know for a fact they never did. I'm not trying to validate my find as being that old, I'm just letting you know that I dont know squat of that time period .

  10. #10
    ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddsPoint View Post
    I doubt any natives ever ran trading posts. Here in IL it was the French that had the trading posts. P&P is correct. The old copper culture is way back there, like 6000 BC to 3000 BC. If it was made by an Indian it was probably pounded into shape with hammerstones. If made by a white man it would likely be cast. Closer examination is needed. It does not look green in the pics, are you sure it is even copper? Unless it was found in water it should be green. Gary
    It was found in the bank of a salt water beach. I'm sure its copper. 100% sure. The pictures didnt really bring out the patina. I added the "copper culture" myself. I didnt know what I was talking about. Not gonna lie

  11. #11
    us
    logger/ sawmill operator

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    KENTUCKY
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    Very possible its copper, i have got mined copper chunks that are almost black and no, to very little green patina. so it is possible.
    RelicMedic likes this.

  12. #12
    Charter Member
    us
    "WP"

    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by RelicMedic View Post
    I found this item below a Native trading post and was wondering if it could be Native, or something else. It's a little over 4" long and made of copper. Thanks guys.
    Hi Relic...

    You might look for a tool used on birch bark canoes to repair and to maintain..
    Not saying your find is the same tool. Hazy memory suggests a spoon type shape on one end of a larger sized awl than for other work.

    Being able to patch a hole could require making holes to thread through ,and pine pitch or similar glue used on a leaking ,or new repair seam could be reheated with a heated (away/off the repair spot) tool to finish smoothing /spreading it as it cooled.

    Other things were made from bark too. Who knows?
    Not sure about the glue/caulk mix in this article ,but recipes vary.

    [The traditional caulking material for birch bark canoes is a combination of spruce gum and pine pitch thatís mixed with some ground-up charcoal and some animal fat. The spruce gum and pine pitch would first be melted down and then the charcoal and animal fat can be added. The amount of fat added depends on the weather. The finished mixture is hard when cooled down and can easily be transported. Every birch bark canoe had a canoe repair kit, which included extra bark, sewing materials, tools and caulking. Traditional caulking must be applied while it is hot.]https://www.realworldsurvivor.com/2016/02/01/diy-birch-bark-canoe/

    Heating a tool would allow resoftening a seams caulk to reseal it if it was not a good seal and leaked.
    Last edited by releventchair; Aug 10, 2018 at 06:57 PM.
    RelicMedic likes this.

  13. #13
    us
    Jun 2007
    Central Wisconsin
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    If it is a copper culture artifact, it is 3,000 to 5,000 years old. Being that it was found near the site of a trading post, has no bearing on the artifact. It's been laying there for thousands of years before any type of structure was built in the area. It just happened to be there. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
    RelicMedic likes this.

  14. #14
    ca
    Apr 2013
    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by mick56 View Post
    If it is a copper culture artifact, it is 3,000 to 5,000 years old. Being that it was found near the site of a trading post, has no bearing on the artifact. It's been laying there for thousands of years before any type of structure was built in the area. It just happened to be there. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
    I wouldn't hold any merit to the "trading post" line. Personally, I think you're right, but my opinion isn't worth a lick on this subject
    ToddsPoint likes this.

 

 

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