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  1. #31
    us
    Oct 2007
    Summit County, CO
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    Cool and mysterious, hope you figure it out. Trail markers were never that complicated. Almost looks like someone with imagination and a Dremel tool had free time on their hands after watching 'Ancient Aliens' on the TV.
    Just like Texas in 1880.

  2. #32

    Jan 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANTIQUARIAN View Post
    For comparison... just saying, these look awfully similar to what you've got there Bob.

    "Petroglyphs Provincial Park is a historical-class provincial park situated in Woodview,Ontario, Canada, northeast of Peterborough. It has the largest collection of ancient First Nations petroglyphs in Ontario, Canada.

    The stone is generally believed to have been carved by the Algonkian or Iroquian speakingpeople between 900 and 1100 AD., if not somewhat earlier during the Archaic.Today, the First Nations people of Ontario call the carvings Kinomagewapkong, meaning "the rocks that teach" or "the Teaching Rocks". Originally two to three inches deep the 1200 carvings were made using gneiss hammers to incise human figures, animals, and a dominant figure whose head apparently represents the sun, onto the soft, gently sloping walls.

    According to the Learning Center, while the glyphs are important, they are not the primary reason this site is sacred. The rock site itself is a sacred place. And today is a place of pilgrimage for local Ojibway people. The deep crevices in therock are believed to lead to the spirit world, as there is an underground trickle of water that runs beneath the rock which produces sounds interpreted by aboriginal people as those of the Spirits speaking to them."

    - Dave



    ANTIQUARIAN

    Thanks for the info. I love that kind of stuff. However, I visited Petrified Forest National Park a while back where "Newspaper Rock" is located and one of the Rangers told me they are no longer sure about the true nature of the petroglyphs there. They suspect they might have been inscribed by indigenous children such as kids nowadays my scribble in a coloring book. I'm not sure I subscribe to that theory, but I gotta admit that some of the etchings look kind of childish.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Sodabob; Jan 16, 2019 at 09:58 PM.
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  3. #33
    Charter Member
    ca
    Detect everyday like it's the last day of the season!

    Apr 2010
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    Thanks very much for your follow up post to mine Bob. The great thing about the folks here on Tnet, is that we're all passionate about history and trying to save it.

    I've been detecting a number of old settlement/farm sites Northeast of Toronto this past year and I had one of the best stories told to me by the landowner. When his family bought the property in 1962, the former landowner told him a story about finding a partially carved Native American totem pole in the woods in the 1950s. Now, I haven't pursued to search for this totem pole, but it's obviously on my mind. Maybe later this year I'll do a search for it, as his land is surrounded by hardwood trees that are hundreds of years old.

    Hope you find the answers to your 'mystery rock', as I love these types of mysteries.

    Dave
    “I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”
    “Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
    “Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.”
    ― John Wayne

  4. #34
    us
    Jan 2013
    Maryland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodabob View Post
    DIM

    What you're calling a "Flux Capacitor" is probably the most distinctive design on the entire rock. If someone can determine its origin (if it has one ?) then it might lead to other clues and possibly solve the mystery.
    I was trying to be funny. The invention of the flux capacitor is the breakthrough that allows time travel in "Back to the Future". Good luck with your rock. It's quite intriguing.
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  5. #35
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
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    Bob - Welcome back! Good to see you posting again.

    Can you please be more specific about the location of the rock?

    Thx

    DCMatt
    "It's a long time between drinks."
    Attributed to John Motley Morehead
    Governor - North Carolina - 1843

  6. #36

    Jan 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCMatt View Post
    Bob - Welcome back! Good to see you posting again.

    Can you please be more specific about the location of the rock?

    Thx

    DCMatt

    DC

    I have been asked by the Historical Society not to disclose the "exact" location of the rock until it can be relocated this spring or summer. They feel the less people that know about its location the better. Because it is in a remote area they are afraid someone might steal or vandalize it. The funny thing is, I grew up in the area, as did a lot of my friends, and none of us knew about the rock until about two years ago. Even the Historical Society didn't know about it until about two years ago. But I can tell you that it is located in California. After they move it I will be sure and disclose its "safe" location.
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  7. #37

    Jan 2019
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    P.S.

    Despite what I said in my last post, I see no harm in disclosing the following ...

    The Mystery Rock ...

    1. Is a stones throw from a wagon road built in the 1860s
    2. Is located in a community that was established in the 1860s (The community had a Blacksmith shop)
    3. Is located a stones throw from a Highway that was constructed (of dirt) around 1910 and paved around 1930
    4. Is located about 1/2 mile away from a Military encampment that was built in 1941

    Footnote: Despite what I said earlier about "Totem Poles" I'm kind of leaning toward the "Blacksmith Shop" as a possible connection. They certainly would have had the necessary tools and talent for such an endeavor.

  8. #38
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodabob View Post
    DC

    I have been asked by the Historical Society not to disclose the "exact" location of the rock until it can be relocated this spring or summer. They feel the less people that know about its location the better. Because it is in a remote area they are afraid someone might steal or vandalize it. The funny thing is, I grew up in the area, as did a lot of my friends, and none of us knew about the rock until about two years ago. Even the Historical Society didn't know about it until about two years ago. But I can tell you that it is located in California. After they move it I will be sure and disclose its "safe" location.
    Thx for the reply Bob. I found it on the internet, although the exact location is not disclosed.

    From a certain perspective it begins to show some symmetry. At the 'top' you can see what could be the water symbol. Click image for larger version. 

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    Two rectangles beside the 'water', triangles on the outside edges, and the prominent 'Y' angled in the center.

    I'm not saying these are Native American symbol. Just showing the symmetry...

    I think the carving was left unfinished.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I can only speculate on who did it and why. And my 'theory' is probably no different than yours.

    PM me so I can ask a couple more questions without revealing the location in the thread.

    DCMatt
    "It's a long time between drinks."
    Attributed to John Motley Morehead
    Governor - North Carolina - 1843

  9. #39
    us
    El Dorado: Gold is where you find it.

    Apr 2015
    Valley Center, CA/Yuma, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodabob View Post
    P.S.

    Despite what I said in my last post, I see no harm in disclosing the following ...

    The Mystery Rock ...

    1. Is a stones throw from a wagon road built in the 1860s
    2. Is located in a community that was established in the 1860s (The community had a Blacksmith shop)
    3. Is located a stones throw from a Highway that was constructed (of dirt) around 1910 and paved around 1930
    4. Is located about 1/2 mile away from a Military encampment that was built in 1941

    Footnote: Despite what I said earlier about "Totem Poles" I'm kind of leaning toward the "Blacksmith Shop" as a possible connection. They certainly would have had the necessary tools and talent for such an endeavor.
    Hi again, Bob. Now that you have brought up the blacksmith shop, I have to agree with you on that. Certainly had the tools, and quite possibly the time. Although you have given enough hints here to find the general location (to anybody familiar with SD County history), I won't go looking for it. I suspect that even with the general location, it would be difficult to find..... I'll wait until it shows up at the "safe" location. However, if, at that time, you would disclose the original location, I would be interested in seeing if there are any similar stones in the area. If I did find any, I would leave them in place and contact you and the Historical Society.

    JB

    JB
    Last edited by Shortfinger; Jan 17, 2019 at 04:00 PM.

  10. #40
    us
    Oddball

    Jun 2017
    Bakersfield, CA
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    tag

  11. #41
    Charter Member
    ca
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    Guys... this stone is probably located in the desert, am I at least correct of that assumption Bob?

    What I'm saying here is, this carving could be thousands of years old and would not have suffered from seasonal wear to the face being in the desert.
    Here in Ontario, the extreme freeze thaw, combined the acid rain we used to get in the 1950s - 70s degraded many of our native carvings that were exposed to the elements.

    Acid rain has many ecological effects, but none is greater than its impact on lakes, streams, wetlands, and other aquatic environments. Acid rain makes waters acidic, and causes them to absorb the aluminum that makes its way from soil into lakes and streams.Acid Rain Effects - Buildings. Acids have a corrosive effect on limestone or marble buildings or sculptures. It is well established that either wet or dry deposition of sulfur dioxide significantly increases the rate of corrosion on limestone, sandstone, and marble.

    My point is... that this carving was likely a trail marker that stood upright and was created thousands of years ago by a long gone native culture.

    Dave

    coinman123 likes this.
    “I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”
    “Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
    “Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.”
    ― John Wayne

  12. #42

    Jan 2019
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    The Mystery Rock is located in the vicinity of Campo, California which is about 50 miles east of San Diego and about two miles north of the Mexico border. The area is usually arid at an elevation of approximately 2,500' feet with thick brush, live oak trees, meadows and canyons dominating the landscape. Here are a few more pic of the rock ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #43

    Jan 2019
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    I went to the Mystery Rock today to take another look and walked around it several times to see if I could make sense of it. The one thing more than anything else that kept jumping out at me was the large Y symbol in the center. If the original carver intended to leave a message and was not just chiseling away willy-nilly, the Y symbol certainly seems to be the main focus. I even thought to myself, "Come on, Mr. Rock, what are you trying to tell me?" Of course rocks don't talk, but I did get the eerie impression the large Y was significant. The long story short led me to imaging that the so called symbols on the rock might not be symbols at all but letters. But what type of letters from what type of alphabet could possibly be similar to the carvings on the rock? You will probably think I'm off my rocker (pun intended), and I won't argue the point, but take a look at the "Phoenician Alphabet" shown below and compare them to the carvings on the rock. Especially notice the Y, the triangles, the rectangles, the zig-zags, etc.

    By the way, the Phoenician Alphabet is considered the oldest alphabet in the World and has its origins in the Mediterranean area.



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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Sodabob; Jan 18, 2019 at 11:04 PM.
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  14. #44

    Apr 2007
    Anaheim, Ca.
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    I am familiar with the area and the kumeyaay would not have done that I don't think, never seen anything like that in the area and I have hiked the area north and east of there quite a bit, seen allot, but nothing really carved per se. Could there be a Chinese connection? As there were several Chinese railroad camps along that RR route?
    Paul

  15. #45
    Charter Member
    ca
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    Thanks for the update on this interesting mystery Bob.
    I'd be interested to see if there is anything carved into the opposite side of the rock.
    If there is something carved there, then I think it's a good chance this was originally a trail marker.

    In my research for old homestead sites to detect, I use old atlas', Google Maps & Google Earth to triangulate topographical features, trails, wagon roads and areas of development.
    Now, you've likely already done this, but have you recently done a Google Earth survey of the area? Have you gone over soil in close proximity to the rock with a metal detector?

    I'm aware you've already mentioned:

    Is a stones throw from a wagon road built in the 1860s
    Is located in a community that was established in the 1860s (The community had a Blacksmith shop)
    Is located a stones throw from a Highway that was constructed (of dirt) around 1910 and paved around 1930
    Is located about 1/2 mile away from a Military encampment that was built in 1941
    I honestly think you have to envision what this area looked like and how it was used prior to the arrival of the white man.
    The majority of roads, trails and water sources had been used by the local inhabitants in the area for thousands of years.
    The fact that 'your stone' is located in the desert, tells me that it likely holds some significance.

    I'm heading to Las Vegas on Monday to work a trade show all next week, I'll pop in here occasionally for any updates.

    Dave
    “I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”
    “Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
    “Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.”
    ― John Wayne

 

 
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