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Thread: Brass Goat Badge/Emblem

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  1. #1
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
    Minelab Equinox 600, EX II, & Musketeer, White's Classic
    8,116
    7376 times
    Metal Detecting

    Brass Goat Badge/Emblem

    Found by a friend of mine.

    4” tall by 3.5” wide. Made of brass. Found in Suffolk, VA in the side yard of a house built in 1888. Found CW relics around it but no Rev war.

    I hope to get a pic of the back soon.

    What say you?

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    They told me I should hold on to my dreams.
    So I went back to sleep...

  2. #2

    Dec 2006
    3,666
    2093 times
    havent found a goat badge yet, but the goat has been a mascot with..

    The Royal Welsh Fusiliers'relationship with goats dates back to an incident
    at the Battle of Bunker Hill in 1775, during the American War of Independence.
    A wild goat is reputed to have strayed on to the battlefield and led the Royal
    Welsh Fusiliers' colour party from the field. A goat has served with the regiment
    and its successor units ever since.

    https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail....=1960-05-295-1
    devldog and mojjax like this.

  3. #3

    Feb 2017
    384
    527 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I think it is a goat head on a torquillion.

    Clan Fleming maybe?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Fleming


    Greets Namxat
    Reanm8er, DCMatt, nhbenz and 4 others like this.

  4. #4
    us
    Priv8ear

    Aug 2018
    Shenandoah Valley Va
    WW2 Mine Detector, 2 Garrets and an Underwater Fisher (Older Machines)
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    Boy, I'd give my first born to solve this question! LOL! He's 32 really tough and wouldn't cooperate!

    Congrats Matt! I really like that assoc to the royal fusiliers. I hope you find your solution! So, a fusilier is someone responsible for distributing rifle flints, cannon fusses and powder and ball?

    In Suffolk you can buy peanuts that are treated just like they were in Colonial times. They're soaked in seawater for a prescribed period and they taste fabulous.

    Best wishes!
    devldog likes this.
    Phil

  5. #5
    us
    Ben from NH, the Z means nothing

    Dec 2004
    Brentwood, NH
    White's Classic SL White's Surf P.I.
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    Livery sort of thing it would seem? Similar looking critters here: https://sites.google.com/site/livery...fied/home/goat
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    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain

  6. #6

    Dec 2006
    3,666
    2093 times
    agree Clan Fleming

    In the Virginia Colony, the Flemings were prominent as attorneys,
    judges, planters, and supporters of the independence movement as
    officers in the Continental Army. They were close friends of
    Washington and Jefferson before they were presidents.


    They lived in Williamsburg, in Henrico County, and subsequent
    generations lived in Goochland, Chesterfield, and Cumberland counties.
    https://www.gwest.org/fleming_book.htm

    https://www.flyingtigerantiques.com/...st-nickel.html
    devldog, Reanm8er and nhbenz like this.

  7. #7
    us
    Jun 2012
    NJ
    Whites
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    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Jersey Devil Click image for larger version. 

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    Just trying to help Matt! Lol
    devldog and Reanm8er like this.

  8. #8
    us
    Ben from NH, the Z means nothing

    Dec 2004
    Brentwood, NH
    White's Classic SL White's Surf P.I.
    6,643
    6034 times
    Clan Fleming looks good but...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Reanm8er and Subterranean like this.
    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain

  9. #9
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
    Minelab Equinox 600, EX II, & Musketeer, White's Classic
    8,116
    7376 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by namxat View Post
    I think it is a goat head on a torquillion.

    Clan Fleming maybe?:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Fleming


    Greets Namxat
    Agree. It looks like Clan Fleming. There is plenty of Fleming family history in colonial Virginia with direct connection to Scotland.

    If it's a clan badge, I assume it's from the old country. So, based on the size, how was it used or worn? What is it?
    Reanm8er likes this.
    They told me I should hold on to my dreams.
    So I went back to sleep...

  10. #10

    Feb 2017
    384
    527 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    DCMatt,

    sorry I cant say. I just noticed the torquillion and a somehow had in mind that belt/garter and/or torquilion are strongly indicative of scottisch clan badges. So I goggled "Clan badge Goat head" -> voila!
    The Fleming / Virgina connection was unknown to me. But why shouldnt someone celebrate his heritage in the new world?

    I can just guess:

    From the size, hmm.... Hat badge? Luggage badge? something horse related?

    Greets Namxat
    Reanm8er and DCMatt like this.

  11. #11
    us
    Priv8ear

    Aug 2018
    Shenandoah Valley Va
    WW2 Mine Detector, 2 Garrets and an Underwater Fisher (Older Machines)
    1,829
    2725 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Great info guys!

    Wow a clan or crest badge in the US. You might look up the original Royal land grants for that area and see who were awarded with or given proprietary property rights! I think the descendants of the grantors divorced themselves from European heraldic symbology before the revolutionary period. The local family I researched had a descendant who served in the revolution. That would take some real faith to do that knowing that if the colonies lost your whole family would likely loose their lands etc.

    Best wishes, BANNER!
    Phil

  12. #12
    br
    Jul 2018
    386
    470 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Very nice find...

    is the back of the artefact like a pin or brooch?

    Can only be banner if found by a member, not a friend.
    I love the taste of water, frozen into squares, and surrounded by rum

  13. #13

    Feb 2017
    384
    527 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    People,


    I have been notified, "torquilion" is not proper English word. It is called a torse. That is this twisted cloth the goats head stems from. Sometimes seen in other coat of arms but I think almost always in those scotish clan badges.

    Greet Namxat


    and sorry for the confusion.

  14. #14

    Aug 2014
    California
    De Havilland Canada DHC-7-102 Dash 7 - Fugro
    707
    1527 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Was able to find examples of smaller accoutrements ... cuff links, necklace, kilt pins ... etc.
    But, yours is more than twice as large as those.

    They almost always are accompanied with the phrase, "Let the Deed Shaw". (Let the Deed Show)
    There's a few possibilities associated with the traditional garb that need further searching.

    Note the 1890's example ... how your piece may have easily popped free, if it was mounted in a similar fashion.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm beginning to realize I've gone through life without knowing what anything is ...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nhbenz View Post
    Livery sort of thing it would seem? Similar looking critters here: https://sites.google.com/site/livery...fied/home/goat
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    You're the closest, it is a family 'Livery emblem'.
    These are mostly circa 1790-1840, & the ones I've seen are not brass but closer to pot metal or pewter. (sometimes plated) They normally have 2 iron fixings on the reverse, which fixed it to the horse harness leather.
    Goldiver likes this.
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