A porcelain hat!
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  1. #1

    May 2018
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    A porcelain hat!

    I found this digging to can any give more info on this hat age and value?
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    Noah_D, ANTIQUARIAN and gunsil like this.

  2. #2
    Charter Member
    us
    Feb 2006
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    Really cool! That image in the porcelain is called a lithophane. I see them in sake cups sometimes. Here’s someone who has the same one, but unfortunately doesn’t know much about it either:


    https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...-hat-401533988

  3. #3
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
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    That's a really cool piece. Lucky it's not broken...

    My first thought was Paul von Hindenburg.

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    But the older guy on the lithophane doesn't have the classic huge mustache... I can't find a "mature" picture of von Hindenburg with his mustache trimmed like that.

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    Noah_D and ANTIQUARIAN like this.
    "It's a long time between drinks."
    Attributed to John Motley Morehead
    Governor - North Carolina - 1843

  4. #4
    us
    Mar 2010
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    gunsil, DCMatt and ANTIQUARIAN like this.
    My wife does all the driving, I just hold the steering wheel.

  5. #5
    us
    Oct 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by fyrffytr1 View Post
    OMG! The photo I posted as young Hindenburg is actually Groener! No wonder it looked like him! (Insert red face here)

    I guess you can't believe anything from the internet these days...
    ANTIQUARIAN and gunsil like this.
    "It's a long time between drinks."
    Attributed to John Motley Morehead
    Governor - North Carolina - 1843

  6. #6
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
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    I thought it might be Porfirio Diaz (José de la Cruz Porfirio Díaz Mori), the Mexican general and president of Mexico from 1876-1880 and 1884-1911.

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    Trouble is, the dude in the portrait has a centre-parting and Diaz seems to be invariably pictured with a side-parting or no parting at all. Same issue with other possibilities.
    ANTIQUARIAN likes this.

  7. #7
    us
    Mar 2010
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    Here is a short biography.
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    My wife does all the driving, I just hold the steering wheel.

  8. #8
    us
    Mar 2010
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    After re-reading this post I may be wrong. I found the picture that DCMatt posted and went from there. Obviously I went in the wrong direction! None of the older pictures I found of Groener look anything like the one in the mug. So, it's back to the drawing board!
    My wife does all the driving, I just hold the steering wheel.

  9. #9
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2016
    Central MI
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    That’s a much better photo of the portrait inside the hat. Maybe a better photo of the hat would help? The front of it appears to have an insignia or symbol in the center of the blue band. If it does, it might help identify the man.


    Being designed to be viewed backlit like that doesn’t support my earlier idea of it being an ashtray....
    Last edited by Squirrel322; Jul 30, 2020 at 10:48 PM.

  10. #10
    us
    Spec-Ops: We Own The Night

    Feb 2009
    Panama City Florida
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    Could it be Ludwig III of Bavaria? But then again after looking at so many Bavarian, Prussian Kings, and Princes they all start to look the same. Also could be that this was a lid off of a beer stein.

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    DCMatt likes this.
    Mike
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  11. #11
    Charter Member
    ca
    Detect everyday like it's the last day of the season!

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    Great background information provided by everyone here.


    My first thought, was that he looks a lot like by great, great grand-father.

    I'm curious as to what this piece's original use might have been for... a paperweight, a tobacco jar lid or based on the glazing, maybe just decorative?
    “I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”
    “Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.”
    “Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.”
    ― John Wayne

  12. #12
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffuries View Post
    Could it be Ludwig III of Bavaria? But then again after looking at so many Bavarian, Prussian Kings, and Princes they all start to look the same.
    I hear you. Most of us old, gray-haired, white guys with whiskers sort of look alike...

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    Squirrel322 and DizzyDigger like this.
    "It's a long time between drinks."
    Attributed to John Motley Morehead
    Governor - North Carolina - 1843

  13. #13
    us
    Oct 2006
    Herndon Virginia
    Minelab Equinox 600, EX II, & Musketeer, White's Classic
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    I think it's a humidor lid. Similar to this piece:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Back-of-the-boat likes this.
    "It's a long time between drinks."
    Attributed to John Motley Morehead
    Governor - North Carolina - 1843

  14. #14
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Lithophane beer steins certainly existed as novelty items from the 1830s onwards (plus many later facsimiles/fakes) and in some cases were regimental items. Kaiser Wilhelm sometimes features, but I’m pretty sure that isn’t the Kaiser. However, every one I’ve ever seen has the lithophane in the base of the stein, although I don’t see any reason why there couldn’t be some with the picture in the lid.

    This curious item is a stein with a military cap lid similar to the OP’s item but, as is usual, the lithophane is in the base.

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    It’s in the Mariner’s Museum at Newport, VA and they say that they don’t know much about it apart from:

    Made for the American market, it features a naval looking cap (as the lid) with an insignia that is an adaptation of the Great Seal of the United States. The body of the stein also features an insignia used by the US Navy starting about 1870. We know it was produced in Germany because of an impressed number in the bottom, a practice characteristic of the German manufactories; the tell-tale thumb hold on the lid; and the lithophane itself which depicts an obviously German scene.
    Plug N Play likes this.

  15. #15
    us
    Jun 2011
    Oklahoma
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    Lithophane objects of this nature are typically German or Austrian and people tend to focus their search efforts in that direction for an ID. Personally, I believe this piece is American. The insignia on the 'hat' appears to be American and is especially evident on the one in the worthpoint link that randazzo1 provided. I feel this is most likely American General Shafter who was one of the commanding generals during the Spanish-American War. That would also put it in the appropriate time frame for lithophane objects.

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