2 coins, need help...

[merg240]

i found an old chinese or japanese coin today and i was wondering if anyone on here could help ID it. it's about the size of a U.S. nickle.









the other coin appears to be very old silver... there is nothing on it that gives me a clue to its origin so again maybe you guys can help.



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thanks for looking!

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ist coin chinese cash coin, very old. Someone will ID the dynasty.

[PBK]

As BCH notes, the Oriental coin is indeed a Chinese cash. I believe it's a Tao Kuang T'ung Pao cash, c. 1821-50. Scroll to the sixth coin ("Description No. 344"), about 2/3 down the page at

http://ykleungt.tripod.com/qingcash.htm

The other coin looks like a Spanish 8 maravedis of Isabella II, 1833-68:

http://www.maravedis.org/imagenes/cecajubia.jpg

[merg240]

thanks PBK, both of them look right on.

[PBK]

Glad I could help!

By the way, I should have pointed out that the 8 maravedis is a copper coin. I'm not sure why this one has a silvery appearance: plated, struck on wrong planchet, etc. However, as far as I know, there is no silver coin of identical design.

[Skrimpy]

Before stating this, I humbly bow to your ID skills PBK...but I have to respectfully disagree with the ID here (unless I misunderstood you and when you said "like" you didn't mean that's what you were calling it). Those two coins look completely different to me...I don't know much about any coins but those minted by the US federal govt, but unless my eyes are decieving me that is not the same coin in the link you posted as the coin he found. PBK, your link has words around the edge (and a date), whereas his is just a design around the edge and no date. Like I said, I don't know much about non US federal issue coins (and humbly bow to your ID skills), so I can see if this is some sort of variant of the one you posted but I would think it would be more likely a different coin altogether since it does appear to be silver.

[PBK]

Perhaps you're right!

However, if it is not a badly worn 8 maravedis of Isabella II, then I can only say that to my untutored eye it would certainly appear to have been made in imitation of one. Except for other denominations in the same series, I'm not aware of any official coinage of the same design.

That said, I'm often wrong and always eager to learn, so I'll bow out and look forward to seeing better information posted soon.

[Montana Jim]

I agree wholeheartedly with PBK on the Chinese Cash Coin.

I am looking closely at the Spanish Coin.

I think we MUST agree that it IS the ravishing Isabella II... with a nose only Hitchcock could love. There are design differences indeed...

I think it may be a token or counterfeit with the design flaws... hashmarks not words, missing elements, lions tails hanging wrong, poor castles... etc. It is without question meant to resemble the coin.

[Montana Jim]

Maybe those ARE words on there and not hashmarks... on the original coin I mean... can we get a macro shot of the letters?

Always second guessing...

[Bigcypresshunter]

Are you sure the second coin is silver? IT doesnt look like silver to me. It looks like aluminum or more likely pot metal. Possibly a replica copy. Found in Kentucky? Nice finds.

[ClonedSIM]

Jeton, perhaps? Counting or gaming coin of some sort?

[QUICKSILVER (appletree)]

That side profile does not look the same to me!!!!! it looks more cartoonish than the example coin!

[merg240]

I know my pictures aren't great so I'll work on getting some better ones on here today. I'm pretty sure it's tarnished silver, but it could be copper as well. All of this was found in northern Kentucky . hopefully you guys can figure it out. What's the best way to clean this coin?

[MonkeyBoy]

Jeton, perhaps? Counting or gaming coin of some sort?

I second this.. I have/had some of these I've picked up over the years.... sometimes very close to the real coin....

MonkeyBoy

[merg240]

UPDATE! new pics for you guys to look at... the more i look at it the more i think it's a counterfeit. let me know what you guys think.

[Skrimpy]

Perhaps you're right!
it would certainly appear to have been made in imitation of one. Except for other denominations in the same series, I'm not aware of any official coinage of the same design.

Like I said, I don't know much about non-US issue coins but I think here you are spot on in that it was made in imitaiton of the isabella, and it was a great eye to recognize the similarities (I certainly wouldn't have). It doesnt appear to be entirely copper to me but maybe a copper alloy as it does have a little green petina in the close ups. It looks like it's been handled quite a bit or possibly a pocket piece. A wieght might help. If it feels heavier for it's size I would think more along the lines of knock off. I would venture a guess that if it were silver or a copper alloy coin it is almost certainly a knock off of the isabella. I wonder if there is a source for conterfeit isabellas? My guess from the pics? Counterfeit Isabella. Take it to coin dealers. At some point you will find someone that knows what the heck it is, and there are probably more floating around your area if you found one imitating a mid 1800s coin there. I couldn't find anything on Isabella counterfeits but she was certainly in the business of making coin so I would think that someone at some point would be in the business of counterfeiting her coins.
More on Isabella and coinage:
http://www.coinmall.com/CSNA/guam2.htm

[CRUSADER]

Jeton, perhaps? Counting or gaming coin of some sort?

I second this.. I have/had some of these I've picked up over the years.... sometimes very close to the real coin....

MonkeyBoy

Gaming token would have been my guess, so I will third it. Seems a poor effort at a counterfiet, wouldn't fool many people. However the differences were done on purpose for some gaming piece.