Oldest Silver coin I know of being found in North America

[Iron Patch]

...and I was about twenty feet away when it was found. On what seems to be a rare occasion the last few years the three of us who hunt together (or used to) got out with the addition of a guest from out of town. Of course he was the one who dug the coin ... and I had been so close so many times! I'm not sure how long it took for my other buds to realize what he had but I definitely knew at first glance he hit one very old English silver. Unfortunately as you can see it has a 'slight' bend in it.

Ok UK guys, I believe it's an early silver penny but to me these all look the same in the Spink. Two questions if you could.... 1) Do you think with the limited amount in these pictures I can ID it? 2) If question one is a yes, or maybe, is there any ones thing that I can look for to determine monarch? I thought I'd post it because I only have access to the picture and it makes more sense to let the guys who know have a look. My friend thinks 1200s/1300s. Thanks! (I believe it's about sixpense in size)

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[CRUSADER]

You have an Edward I circa 1272 (date from top of head).

You can see EDWR ANGL DNS HYB

Rev:

CIVITAS LONDON - London Mint

Its a Penny.

[Iron Patch]

Thanks! I guess he was right. This coin was definitely not lost out of a modern collection, site was early to mid. 1700s. The strange thing is there isn't a lot of wear so it obviously didn't circulate that long. Perhaps it was actually a find before it was lost a second time.

[CRUSADER]

On second thoughts:

Its hard to make out but the initial cross before EDWR looks like a Cross 1 type. Which would make it Edward III Penny 1327-1377.

Its all in the head & crown variations which are not visible & the letter type. I will study the letter types but this is an art which I'm only learning.

UPDATED:

I'll stick with my first answer, I can't see the initial cross (I was looking at the E). Its more likely to be Ed I but there is a small chance its ED III.

[CRUSADER]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched? (interesting that the hole would have been directly above the crown & the kings head would have hung upright, however I would have expected it higher up for a pendant use)

[Iron Patch]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

[CRUSADER]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

[Iron Patch]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

[CRUSADER]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

Old English expression 'As Rare as Hens Teeth' - Hens have NO teeth

See a google of the expression:

be as scarce as hen's teeth (American & Australian)
to be very difficult or impossible to find.

[PBK]

The bend suggests possible use as a love token, although those are more commonly S-bent. Holing it for suspension would be consistent with this usage as well.

I believe some early hammered silver examples have been reported in the U.K., presumably found and fashioned into love tokens at a much later date.

[Iron Patch]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

Old English expression 'As Rare as Hens Teeth' - Hens have NO teeth

See a google of the expression:

be as scarce as hen's teeth (American & Australian)
to be very difficult or impossible to find.

I know the saying, this find is just beyond using it. (as it is used)

[Iron Patch]

The bend suggests possible use as a love token, although those are more commonly S-bent. Holing it for suspension would be consistent with this usage as well. I believe some early hammered silver examples have been reported in the U.K., presumably found and fashioned into love tokens at a much later date.

Very possible, just not expected.

[PBK]

Entenmann's book on love tokens cites an interesting comment in Sussex Archaeological Collections, LXVI, p. 73: "In the thirteenth century it was customary to bend a silver penny at the shrine of the saint invoked..." So, that might also explain the bend.

[Iron Patch]

Entenmann's book on love tokens cites an interesting comment in Sussex Archaeological Collections, LXVI, p. 73: "In the thirteenth century it was customary to bend a silver penny at the shrine of the saint invoked..." So, that might also explain the bend.

Interesting, I'll pass that on to the finder, will probably give him a better feeling about the bend.

[CRUSADER]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

Old English expression 'As Rare as Hens Teeth' - Hens have NO teeth

See a google of the expression:

be as scarce as hen's teeth (American & Australian)
to be very difficult or impossible to find.

I know the saying, this find is just beyond using it. (as it is used)

Why? when you have had several on here find Roman Coins? They are a 1000 years earlier.

[Iron Patch]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

Old English expression 'As Rare as Hens Teeth' - Hens have NO teeth

See a google of the expression:

be as scarce as hen's teeth (American & Australian)
to be very difficult or impossible to find.

I know the saying, this find is just beyond using it. (as it is used)

Why? when you have had several on here find Roman Coins? They are a 1000 years earlier.

Just because it's an early site and is a chance the coin was in circulation for that long before it was lost here. Plus it being silver, our oldest Brit. silver coin before this is a worn 1600s shilling, Charles II or William III. (Can't remember, didn't find it) I do know two guys who have found ancient coins.

The best answer to that may be it's just my particular mindset.

[CRUSADER]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

Old English expression 'As Rare as Hens Teeth' - Hens have NO teeth

See a google of the expression:

be as scarce as hen's teeth (American & Australian)
to be very difficult or impossible to find.

I know the saying, this find is just beyond using it. (as it is used)

Why? when you have had several on here find Roman Coins? They are a 1000 years earlier.

Just because it's an early site and is a chance the coin was in circulation for that long before it was lost here. Plus it being silver, our oldest Brit. silver coin before this is a worn 1600s shilling, Charles II or William III. (Can't remember, didn't find it) I do know two guys who have found ancient coins.

In circulation is speculation just like the made up reasons I gave. We are just guessing & we will never know but thats the fun of the hobbie

I'm off out before the rain.

[Iron Patch]

These were made in huge numbers & Ed I London Mint are the most common found in the UK. So it makes sence if any hammered turned up it might be this one. I have heard storys of these being dug up in gardens, found in churches (without detectors) etc.. Therefore its not impossible to think that a 1700 guy/girl dug it up in there garden in the UK & then passed it on or took it with them as a lucky coin (or traded it as silver) to a new & possibly dangerous land.... anyway endless possibilities along those lines......

Is the hole deliberate, I would have expected a square nail shape if punched?

Thanks for all the info.. I do believe a previous find makes the most sense but you're right we'll never know for sure. Common there but a very special find here, one silver I am sure we will never beat for age.

For sure, I wasn't saying it was common there, it must be like hens teeth. Only that its plausable.

Hens teeth? 1200s here is miracle find.

Old English expression 'As Rare as Hens Teeth' - Hens have NO teeth

See a google of the expression:

be as scarce as hen's teeth (American & Australian)
to be very difficult or impossible to find.

I know the saying, this find is just beyond using it. (as it is used)

Why? when you have had several on here find Roman Coins? They are a 1000 years earlier.

Just because it's an early site and is a chance the coin was in circulation for that long before it was lost here. Plus it being silver, our oldest Brit. silver coin before this is a worn 1600s shilling, Charles II or William III. (Can't remember, didn't find it) I do know two guys who have found ancient coins.

In circulation is speculation just like the made up reasons I gave. We are just guessing & we will never know but thats the fun of the hobbie

I'm off out before the rain.

Good luck!

One last thing to add was it was found at the oldest places we hunt, so we expect old coins, just not that old. Had it been found with 1900s stuff I would not look at it the same way. Not sure why but that's my thinking.

[hollowpointred]

wow! that has to be the oldest coin ever dug in the States! it makes me really wonder how the hell it came to be at a colonial site. that coin was old when Columbus discovered America! outstanding!

[Don in SJ]

There is no doubt that individuals who came to North America had older coins in their possesion, either as family keepsakes or even perhaps a novelty that they found in their plowed fields in the ole country. I am sure most of the Roman coins found here are from Dad's collection or bought ones that were dispersed for one reason or another, but even the Roman coins could have found there way here by the immigrants who again, found them while gardening and kept it as a curiousity piece and then lost here in North America. (IP is not in located in the States)

Don