What happened to Whites as industry leader?

[DirtDiggerDaveinMD]

I don't have access to the number of sales etc., but imho the most significant thing on discussing Whites in the market place is comparing how many companies have come along over the last few years that didn't even exist when Whites was the definite leader. For many years the only two companies most had ever heard of was either Whites or Garretts.
luvsdux

Very true. Even with all of the newer companies out there White's and Garret still carry a very large market share of detectors sold.

 

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[migrider56]

The V3i is a very good detector that one must learn how to adjust properly in order to get maximum benefits and dig less trash as well as maximum depth. Some people just want a turn on and go detector which you can also do but not to the full capabilities of the detector. Whites has awesome customer service and satisfaction and stands behind their products!

 

[mntnflyr4fun]

Missing a Step? Maybe just missing their loyal customers

I started with Whites over 10 years ago with a MXT, then V3i, didn't learn either one well before I decided I must be missing something and bought an minelab etrac, then on to an XP Deus....those are now gone and I recently purchased an MXT PRO, TDI PRO and GMT all from the Whites stable. Why? I realized that Whites machines just work. they are well thought out and engineered and have the top service in the industry and that means something, at least to me.

I find it interesting that people are jumping on the bandwagon of every machine some thirdworld EU country can crank out these days, looking for the holy grail.

Has Whites lost their market share? I would be surprised if they handn't. Unless the overall market size is growing as fast as the number of new detector manufacturers those new manufacturers have to get their market somewhere....but it didn't all come from Whites, it also came from minelab, garrett, Fisher etc.....

As the fickle buyer spends his money on every new machine from every new manufacturer that comes out, he/she also creates the reduction in R&D $$ able to be spent by the established manufacturers. You just cannot spend the same amount of money/resources on blue sky R&D investment when your income is being ransacked by their own customers who are willing to abandon them in the generally misplaced hope that they are buying a "wow" machine.....we are our own worst enemy.

In my own case, I walked that path for an Etrac, did I find more coins? Maybe, but I also found that it had issues with threshold lockup in trashy areas and I had to own about 5 coils to make it work reliably, I abandoned the etrac for the XP Deus, wow was it light and fast...did I find more with it? not sure about that either, as it had such subtle tones and unreliable discrimination that it was a machine that would take a huge investment of time to learn...I had it for three years and liked it well, but eventually came full circle and realized that had I given my Whites machines the attention I should have in the first place that they were capable of doing everything I would need. The one thing I can say is that my experience outside of the whites stable helped me see what the real problem was. It was me and my roving eye for all the sexy new machines out there...

So if Whites indeed lost a step, who is to blame? Whites who can't invest what they don't have because their buyers are giving big chunks of $$ to every organ grinder with his monkey that comes along, or us the users who listen to the organs, watch the monkeys and put money in the hats, believing every review by an unknown user glorifying the new machine they just bought...

Whites has a depth of knowledge to drive their designs that is almost unassailable by the new kids on the block and that is what gives them the edge. They may not have that 21st century look and feel, but they have dirt under their fingernails and their stuff works and that's what I pay for, and yeah, they hear ya, the new designs are following the feedback for a new look and feel, and when they get that done, it will once again be what's under the hood that will matter and I think we can all rest assured that Whites Electronics will rise to the top with the rest of the cream, IF we don't kill em first by our utterly American insatiable desire to own the latest/greatest ......

As for me, from here on out I am fully comfortable in the knowledge that I can rely on Whites to compete at the highest levels and have kissed my last frog...

IMHO

 

[Digger]

So if Whites indeed lost a step, who is to blame? Whites who can't invest what they don't have because their buyers are giving big chunks of $$ to every organ grinder with his monkey that comes along

Love it!

Whites is still a leader in metal detectors here in the US and I believe always will be. I still use my 13 year old DFX and can hunt right along side the rest. No, it may not have the depth of my E-Trac, which I only use for super deep coins in our city park, but that DFX, in my opinion still has the best target ID system on the market. And at my age that becomes much more important than depth.

 

[DirtDiggerDaveinMD]

The XLT and DFX are very precise on TID and tones...in my opinion the best in the business.

 

[GibH]

After researching, I'm leaning towards Eurotek Pro. Its about to be re-released as Ameritek Minuteman mid-March and should be an even better value. Still hard to beat the value at $219. With this kind of performance at such a low price, why not. It has extremely fast recovery, great separation, big VDI numbers, 0-99 discrimination increments, 3 tone, and very lightweight. I won't miss the coin indicators or lack of notch. Down side is set ground balance, but price jump for that is substantial. I think its a good choice to get back into the hobby. Wish Whites were competitive at this level.

If that is the way you are leaning, you might as well look at the Bounty Hunter Land Ranger Pro. It has everything you mention, plus ground balance and notch.

 

[Dan B]

AKA Ameritek Liberator.

 

[Tpmetal]

The mx sport is a beautiful machine. Kills it on depth and target seperation. love the display as well. then add salt water capabilities.... not sure what other machines compare to it, but in my mind definitely an at pro killer for sure.

 

[GibH]

AKA Ameritek Liberator.

True dat, but can be found cheaper as a Bounty Hunter. Even now some people are turned off by the brand name.

 

[wingmaster]

With the right coil the MXT is every bit as deep as the E-trac, the parks here have been pounded and nobody really detects them anymore as all the silver is 10"+ deep but with the right coil the MXT stills pulls the deep silver. HH

Love it!

Whites is still a leader in metal detectors here in the US and I believe always will be. I still use my 13 year old DFX and can hunt right along side the rest. No, it may not have the depth of my E-Trac, which I only use for super deep coins in our city park, but that DFX, in my opinion still has the best target ID system on the market. And at my age that becomes much more important than depth.

 

[bowwinkles]

Whites made their well deserved mark in the industry for many years. The question was "What happened to Whites as industry leader". The simple answer is mew management and 2016.

 

[Carl-NC]

The simple answer is [new] management and 2016.

That's a simple answer, but it's the wrong answer.

 

[Twinkletoes]

My MXT goes as deep as my V3i, both in the air and in the ground. I've done a fair bit of comparison between the two, including swapping out the exact same coil on each machine. VLF detector technology pretty much topped out 20 years or so ago and there haven't been any big breakthroughs, just adding bells and whistles. The V3i is loaded down with them, which makes it a fun machine to tinker around with, but at the end of the day, the MXT performs as well and gets as many keepers as the V3i. This is coming from a guy who owns both and with lots of time on both detectors.

So IMHO on the original question, all the big brands have stagnated for the most part, and I don't think White's is really outclassed, they just haven't done any updates or come out with new machines (except the MX Sport which is a rehashed MXT) lately. Give someone a mid-upper end machine from any of the big manufacturers and once they learn that machine's quirks, they'll be doing about as well as with any decent machine.

If there's not going to be any big breakthrough for awhile, which is probably a safe bet, the manufacturers ought to really focus on tweaking their existing designs. White's ought to spend some time really squeezing the most out of the V3i which I think is an awesome detector, just needs a little more polishing of the firmware to make it more responsive, especially in the Disc audio. If they did a really well-thought out update of the V3i, they could ride that another 5 or so years while they quietly work away on the next big thing.

Good point... but your absolutely right about one thing...White's electrical engineers are always working on the next big things.

 

[Rick K]

Whites has a long and proud history and I'm sure we all wish them well. They appear to have a portfolio of interest =ing patents as well.

to,continue to succeed in an increasingly competitive detector marketplace, they will need more than advertising. I have seen a video of their factory and having worked for a major electronics manufacturer, it didn't appear to me to be especially suited to high-rate, low cost production. Also, their engineering staff apparently has had a lot of "churn" over the last few years.

To comtinue as a market leader, they will have to invest millions in facility and engineering talent. For a family owned company, that is a heck of a challange.

 

[bowwinkles]

As you can easily see in the above pages that Whites has had a very honorable history. That all seemed to change when the management changed and the introduction of their 2016 products. That 9 month Fiasco with the MXS proved that. Credit given to them because they did hang in there and got a somewhat reliable conclusion. Their strength is the loyal customers who have and used their previous products.

 

[☠ Cipher]

As you can easily see in the above pages that Whites has had a very honorable history. That all seemed to change when the management changed and the introduction of their 2016 products. That 9 month Fiasco with the MXS proved that. Credit given to them because they did hang in there and got a somewhat reliable conclusion. Their strength is the loyal customers who have and used their previous products.

The MX Sport debacle did a lot in the forum community to hurt their reputation. It gave a lot of fodder to those who are loyal to other brands and models when new people ask for recommendations etc. I think they did the right thing though. They didn't pretend there wasn't an issue and blame their problems on the consumer. They shut production down and fixed them. Hell, I've seen another company with a problem just as widespread act as if it's not a problem. Recalls are a nightmare for any company, but it's the right thing to do. In any event, they got it right. My MX Sport is on point. I'm not new to detecting anymore, but I am new to Whites. Their reputation still precedes them, (especially outside of forums where people don't geek out as much as we do) which is why I felt comfortable choosing the MX Sport over another All Terrain model, but all these American companies have some catching up to do now. I don't think any of the major 3 here can honestly say they are where Minelab is or where Deus is in some respects with hobby machines. Getting a little behind never killed any company, but the question will be can a company like Whites play leap frog. The V3i hasn't caught on like they hoped it would, but it has some hellish potential. One of the most common mistakes I see people, even experienced people making is thinking that the Minelab or the Deus is deeper. That's a marketing issue. People need to understand that 28 simultaneous frequencies, each running on the same physics limitations as 3 does not translate into more depth. What it translates to is more accuracy at the expense of speed. Having a broad spectrum of a few well picked frequencies can be just as effective as going nuts on 28.

 

[wingmaster]

I don't see them behind either of these companies, my MXT will hold it's own against any companies detectors out there. Will someone that pays a lot more for their detector concede that theirs isn't any better most likely not in most people's cases. HH

The MX Sport debacle did a lot in the forum community to hurt their reputation. It gave a lot of fodder to those who are loyal to other brands and models when new people ask for recommendations etc. I think they did the right thing though. They didn't pretend there wasn't an issue and blame their problems on the consumer. They shut production down and fixed them. Hell, I've seen another company with a problem just as widespread act as if it's not a problem. Recalls are a nightmare for any company, but it's the right thing to do. In any event, they got it right. My MX Sport is on point. I'm not new to detecting anymore, but I am new to Whites. Their reputation still precedes them, (especially outside of forums where people don't geek out as much as we do) which is why I felt comfortable choosing the MX Sport over another All Terrain model, but all these American companies have some catching up to do now. I don't think any of the major 3 here can honestly say they are where Minelab is or where Deus is in some respects with hobby machines. Getting a little behind never killed any company, but the question will be can a company like Whites play leap frog. The V3i hasn't caught on like they hoped it would, but it has some hellish potential. One of the most common mistakes I see people, even experienced people making is thinking that the Minelab or the Deus is deeper. That's a marketing issue. People need to understand that 28 simultaneous frequencies, each running on the same physics limitations as 3 does not translate into more depth. What it translates to is more accuracy at the expense of speed. Having a broad spectrum of a few well picked frequencies can be just as effective as going nuts on 28.

 

[bowwinkles]

I don't see them behind either of these companies, my MXT will hold it's own against any companies detectors out there. Will someone that pays a lot more for their detector concede that theirs isn't any better most likely not in most people's cases. HH

Yes, but again the MXT was one of their great pre 2016 designed machines.

 

[wingmaster]

To me that means no need to buy another detector until something greatly better comes out, now if your just starting out it will still be hard to beat the MXTpro which I didn't buy as the only thing better to me than the regular MXT is the multi tone which would be nice but for me not worth buying a new detector. HH

Yes, but again the MXT was one of their great pre 2016 designed machines.

 

[vferrari]

The MX Sport debacle did a lot in the forum community to hurt their reputation. It gave a lot of fodder to those who are loyal to other brands and models when new people ask for recommendations etc. I think they did the right thing though. They didn't pretend there wasn't an issue and blame their problems on the consumer. They shut production down and fixed them. Hell, I've seen another company with a problem just as widespread act as if it's not a problem. Recalls are a nightmare for any company, but it's the right thing to do. In any event, they got it right. My MX Sport is on point. I'm not new to detecting anymore, but I am new to Whites. Their reputation still precedes them, (especially outside of forums where people don't geek out as much as we do) which is why I felt comfortable choosing the MX Sport over another All Terrain model, but all these American companies have some catching up to do now. I don't think any of the major 3 here can honestly say they are where Minelab is or where Deus is in some respects with hobby machines. Getting a little behind never killed any company, but the question will be can a company like Whites play leap frog. The V3i hasn't caught on like they hoped it would, but it has some hellish potential. One of the most common mistakes I see people, even experienced people making is thinking that the Minelab or the Deus is deeper. That's a marketing issue. People need to understand that 28 simultaneous frequencies, each running on the same physics limitations as 3 does not translate into more depth. What it translates to is more accuracy at the expense of speed. Having a broad spectrum of a few well picked frequencies can be just as effective as going nuts on 28.

Not sure why you lumped the Deus in with this 28 frequency conversation - that's a minelab only technology and yes, the 3030 and eTrac have relatively poor recovery speeds. The Deus has multiple operating frequencies but is not a multifrequency machine like the Minelab since you only operate at one frequency at a time. As such, it can be adjusted to trade recovery speed (up to insane levels) with depth and its strength (and depth detection capability) really lies in its ability to enable the operator to audibly discriminate iron from desirable targets with its "full tones" approach and ability to instantly select a number of customizable program profiles. The tones on the Deus will faithfully "id" a target even when a visual target ID number is unable to be displayed due to the depth of the target. I know this thread is about Whites, but just wanted people to not get the mistaken impression that Deus was like a Minelab CTX or eTrac regarding trading depth for recovery speed. They couldn't be more different.