purchase
Jr. Member
- Oct 12, 2008
- 39
- 1
We are getting ready too go to the Treasure Expo in Myrtle Beach, SC on the 4th and 5th of April. You follow us through twitter.com/tesorodelalma
Nick
Nick
17 Tons of gold in New Mexico
- Thread starter Roadquest
- Start date
sabre15
Sr. Member
Thank you for the insight Clayton, that is what I was wondering. I have investigated Terry to a degree, like everyone he put his own spin on things. Good luck with your ongoing project also, hopefully it will end the way you want it to. It would be nice to have some closure on this case, it seems like it has been a while since I have heard of any significant finds in the TH community as far a land discoveries.
Good luck,
Jamie
Good luck,
Jamie
sabre15
Sr. Member
Roadquest said:
Clayton, this is why I ask, regarding my Florida adventure, did you have specific research other than what Terry and others print in their books? For you to come down to Florida and look at the location you looked at, did you find factual documentation or such evidence other than these treasure books?
cptbil
Bronze Member
If you are going to have is anything "assayed"
"Do" as I usually "Do"!
&
Don't use a local "assayer"
You can use, one of several methods.....
1..If you are a resident of the state, the "state" will assay your sample "FREE!" (NM/AZ/Ca/etc)
2..You can use any assayer, ie: one in another state
just "mail" your sample in for an assay, use a friend's address
No location , of your "find", is required !
"Do" as I usually "Do"!
&
Don't use a local "assayer"
You can use, one of several methods.....
1..If you are a resident of the state, the "state" will assay your sample "FREE!" (NM/AZ/Ca/etc)
2..You can use any assayer, ie: one in another state
just "mail" your sample in for an assay, use a friend's address
No location , of your "find", is required !
cptbil
Bronze Member
Roadquest/Sabre15
I should have should have references for "The 17 Tons" Story in my "files"
If/when, I run across them, I'll publish a few here !
I should have should have references for "The 17 Tons" Story in my "files"
If/when, I run across them, I'll publish a few here !
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
HI BUGS & bill: Don't forget my pot of COFFEE.
Don Jose de La Mancha
Don Jose de La Mancha
OP
OP
Roadquest
Bronze Member
- Oct 13, 2005
- 1,778
- 95
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #708
cptbil said:
cptbill,
I'm sure with all the research and references meterial you have. You will
have some information on the 17 Tons of Gold in New Mexico.
You are welcome to publish it here at your connivance.
Bill, what interesting project are you working on now?
ser seguro , y guardar minucioso.....Roadquest
Peerless67
Hero Member
I find it amazing that this thread has been moved to the New Mexico thread, mostly because it was probably done by someone who has not spent a single day researching the story.
And why this one, when there are other 17 tons threads within the treasure legends forum?
An assumption has been made that the 17 tons is in New Mexico without a single shread of evidence to prove that is the case.
Where was Tayopa found ? was it found where everyone believed it was ? the answer is no.
Some guy writes a book in the 60s and everyone hangs on his every word.
This thread does not belong in the New Mexico US States forum because it is a legend and until it is found it is purely hearsay that this treasure is or has ever been in New Mexico.
Maybe it has been uncovered in New Mexico while I have been away, in which case does anyone wish to post about the story ?
If not can the thread be replaced where it started until it is no longer a legend ?
Because if the gold is uncovered in Alaska someone is gonna look real stupid.
coffee2
Gary
And why this one, when there are other 17 tons threads within the treasure legends forum?
An assumption has been made that the 17 tons is in New Mexico without a single shread of evidence to prove that is the case.
Where was Tayopa found ? was it found where everyone believed it was ? the answer is no.
Some guy writes a book in the 60s and everyone hangs on his every word.
This thread does not belong in the New Mexico US States forum because it is a legend and until it is found it is purely hearsay that this treasure is or has ever been in New Mexico.
Maybe it has been uncovered in New Mexico while I have been away, in which case does anyone wish to post about the story ?
If not can the thread be replaced where it started until it is no longer a legend ?
Because if the gold is uncovered in Alaska someone is gonna look real stupid.
coffee2
Gary
Peerless67
Hero Member
Thanks for replacing the thread Jeff
OP
OP
Roadquest
Bronze Member
- Oct 13, 2005
- 1,778
- 95
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #712
Peerless67 said:Well I have been through every book and article that I have, I can not find anything that predates 1968 where Trabuco is named.
Does anyone have an earlier source for the name ?
Gary,
I will give you this on Leon Trabuco, he did not exist.
Clayton
Peerless67
Hero Member
"I will give you this on Leon Trabuco, he did not exist."
Clayton, as I have said before, proving someone did not exist is pretty impossible. Proving someone did is pretty easy.
Your quote is not entirely true because several Leon Trabuco's existed, and even today there are Leon Trabuco's who exist.
I think to truely get a grasp on how and when this name became associated with the 17 tons story you need to look at the account writen by Emile C Schurmacher in 1968, in his book Lost Treasures And How To Find Them.
The story in that book can be found in Chapter 16, Enigma Of The Twenty Million Dollar "Gold Act" Cache.
I am sure you will agree with me that in 1952 both Prentiss Moore and Bernard Klepper were both named in the newspaper reports surrounding the Grand Jury hearings ? and many subsequent publications.
In Schurmachers book he gives many names in the story he wrote, Axel Wenner-Gren, A.C Blumenthal, Maximino Camancho, Herr Schmitt, Ivan Nasicecu, King Carol II, Magda Lupescu.
All of whom were real people and for some reason Schurmacher chose not to hide their identities.
He also mentions Trabuco, Borega, Marado, Sepulvedo, Arteaga and Elliott and gives a good account of who they were.
Strangely Prentiss Moore is given the name John Smith ---- " He prudently selected an American attorney, a mysterious individual we'll call "John Smith" to negotiaite for him."
Klepper is given the name Mr X.
Every telling of the story since has used the names writen in Schurmachers book.
Why did Klepper "Mr X" and Moore "John Smith" get their names changed when everyone else is blatantly named ?
The answer is simple, Klepper and Moore were real people who were involved with the 17 tons story.
The other real people in Schurmachers account were added for credence to the story.
However we know that no man called William C Elliott flew any gold anywhere.
None of the mentioned Mexicans with the exception of Maximino Camancho can be traced (who fit the profile)
The two people who played any real part in the story have had their identities protected, even though their names were readily availiable in several publications surrounding the 1952 hearings.
The Mexicans and pilot mentioned in Schurmachers account played no part in the story.
All the other real people who were mentioned never gave evidence and were not questioned about the gold and were added to give weight and credence to Shurmachers fairytale.
All the real people involved were Californians, the only persons who were not Californian who I would TENTATIVELY add to the story would be Pancho Villa (who was long dead) and Doc Noss (died in 1949 of a gunshot to the head) and their only real link to the story would be via Emil Lewis Holmdahl.
Clayton, as I have said before, proving someone did not exist is pretty impossible. Proving someone did is pretty easy.
Your quote is not entirely true because several Leon Trabuco's existed, and even today there are Leon Trabuco's who exist.
I think to truely get a grasp on how and when this name became associated with the 17 tons story you need to look at the account writen by Emile C Schurmacher in 1968, in his book Lost Treasures And How To Find Them.
The story in that book can be found in Chapter 16, Enigma Of The Twenty Million Dollar "Gold Act" Cache.
I am sure you will agree with me that in 1952 both Prentiss Moore and Bernard Klepper were both named in the newspaper reports surrounding the Grand Jury hearings ? and many subsequent publications.
In Schurmachers book he gives many names in the story he wrote, Axel Wenner-Gren, A.C Blumenthal, Maximino Camancho, Herr Schmitt, Ivan Nasicecu, King Carol II, Magda Lupescu.
All of whom were real people and for some reason Schurmacher chose not to hide their identities.
He also mentions Trabuco, Borega, Marado, Sepulvedo, Arteaga and Elliott and gives a good account of who they were.
Strangely Prentiss Moore is given the name John Smith ---- " He prudently selected an American attorney, a mysterious individual we'll call "John Smith" to negotiaite for him."
Klepper is given the name Mr X.
Every telling of the story since has used the names writen in Schurmachers book.
Why did Klepper "Mr X" and Moore "John Smith" get their names changed when everyone else is blatantly named ?
The answer is simple, Klepper and Moore were real people who were involved with the 17 tons story.
The other real people in Schurmachers account were added for credence to the story.
However we know that no man called William C Elliott flew any gold anywhere.
None of the mentioned Mexicans with the exception of Maximino Camancho can be traced (who fit the profile)
The two people who played any real part in the story have had their identities protected, even though their names were readily availiable in several publications surrounding the 1952 hearings.
The Mexicans and pilot mentioned in Schurmachers account played no part in the story.
All the other real people who were mentioned never gave evidence and were not questioned about the gold and were added to give weight and credence to Shurmachers fairytale.
All the real people involved were Californians, the only persons who were not Californian who I would TENTATIVELY add to the story would be Pancho Villa (who was long dead) and Doc Noss (died in 1949 of a gunshot to the head) and their only real link to the story would be via Emil Lewis Holmdahl.
OP
OP
Roadquest
Bronze Member
- Oct 13, 2005
- 1,778
- 95
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #714
Gary......There are several Leon Trabuco's. In fact, there are several people
with the same name I have. They are just not me. I believe I have a fair idea
of where, and why the Leon Trabuco name came into use. I have a copy of
Emile C Schurmacher's 1968 book. Will get it out tonight, and read it again.
Klepper and Moore were indeed real people. Those that were involved with
the gold, produced a good cover story, with many fictitious names. Maybe
in the future, someone may be able to put enff of this together to find part of
it. Who knows? No matter what, it's an interesting peace of history to study.
Clayton
with the same name I have. They are just not me. I believe I have a fair idea
of where, and why the Leon Trabuco name came into use. I have a copy of
Emile C Schurmacher's 1968 book. Will get it out tonight, and read it again.
Klepper and Moore were indeed real people. Those that were involved with
the gold, produced a good cover story, with many fictitious names. Maybe
in the future, someone may be able to put enff of this together to find part of
it. Who knows? No matter what, it's an interesting peace of history to study.
Clayton
Peerless67
Hero Member
Clayton did you ever locate that Argosy article ? and did it predate the Schurmacher book ?
OP
OP
Roadquest
Bronze Member
- Oct 13, 2005
- 1,778
- 95
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #716
Gary, No I didn't. I started to work on something else, and
forgot about it. It would be interesting to know if the Argosy
artical did predate Schurmacher story.
It may have been posted, I don't know, but here is a good
research site for Argosy Magazine http://en.allexperts.com/e/a/ar/argosy_(magazine)htm.
Clayton
forgot about it. It would be interesting to know if the Argosy
artical did predate Schurmacher story.
It may have been posted, I don't know, but here is a good
research site for Argosy Magazine http://en.allexperts.com/e/a/ar/argosy_(magazine)htm.
Clayton
allenroyboy
Jr. Member
That URL doesn't get any useful info...
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