Smithbrown
Bronze Member
- May 22, 2006
- 1,002
- 831
Can't move underwater these days without tripping over another Griffin wreck The Griffin: Shipwreck found in Lake Michigan may be a notorious 'cursed' ship ? The Girl Sun
Another Griffin
- Thread starter Smithbrown
- Start date
- May 9, 2012
- 22,363
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- Other
Repetitious article .
Have not read of such a curse being a repeated matter.
The Griffin was reported by a witness as last seen fighting rough water/waves. No more no less a cause for it's disappearing.
Fur value was given in the article.
Ship capacity or weight of cargo and any remaining ballast was not. Later in the fur trade packs ran around 90 pounds each. Guess someone could guess a bales value at the time , IF bale measure was being used..
The ship was built to get above the rapids on the West side of Mi. to get above Detroit. Were they fresh water designers and builders?
What was it designed for? Where was it's waterline when loaded and headed East? How was it being steered in relation to the storm(s) directions?
The great lakes are home to a chop action of waves , vs swells.
Hulls take a pounding at many times and design strength and where , matters.
That pounding loosens rivets , and more. And that's during moderate times , let alone storms.
Erie for example is subject to surge and seiche. It's depth a factor in wave characteristic vs a deeper body of water. Yet a shallow bay elsewhere can behave similarly. With wind direction and speed major factors.
Michigan has a hands off / don't disturb approach to historic wrecks for recreational divers. Underwater preserves preferred to salvage or plunder. That has to be considered when an article claims the state won't let divers (including "finders" ) disturb a site.
Would be interesting to finally have confirmation of the Griffins whereabouts.
Being the first alleged ship above Detroit to Wisconsin.
The romantic native curse claim about ruined the article for me though...
Does the author consider native involvement with the Griffin and it's crew?
Or how many furs in her hold were acquired from natives by being willingly traded?
A ship above the rapids was a feat. But certainly not unheard of or unseen by any native prior.
When natives frequented sites below, they encountered ships people and trade. Only the ship size was different.
It's the people you do business with firstly that matters.
If you do business with , and want to continue to do business with a people , are you going to cuss their vehicle?
Most groups of natives wanted that ability. And there were groups of natives that controlled the trades of other groups of natives. Why would you give up having a direct ability , vs having to go through a middleman?
Have not read of such a curse being a repeated matter.
The Griffin was reported by a witness as last seen fighting rough water/waves. No more no less a cause for it's disappearing.
Fur value was given in the article.
Ship capacity or weight of cargo and any remaining ballast was not. Later in the fur trade packs ran around 90 pounds each. Guess someone could guess a bales value at the time , IF bale measure was being used..
The ship was built to get above the rapids on the West side of Mi. to get above Detroit. Were they fresh water designers and builders?
What was it designed for? Where was it's waterline when loaded and headed East? How was it being steered in relation to the storm(s) directions?
The great lakes are home to a chop action of waves , vs swells.
Hulls take a pounding at many times and design strength and where , matters.
That pounding loosens rivets , and more. And that's during moderate times , let alone storms.
Erie for example is subject to surge and seiche. It's depth a factor in wave characteristic vs a deeper body of water. Yet a shallow bay elsewhere can behave similarly. With wind direction and speed major factors.
Michigan has a hands off / don't disturb approach to historic wrecks for recreational divers. Underwater preserves preferred to salvage or plunder. That has to be considered when an article claims the state won't let divers (including "finders" ) disturb a site.
Would be interesting to finally have confirmation of the Griffins whereabouts.
Being the first alleged ship above Detroit to Wisconsin.
The romantic native curse claim about ruined the article for me though...
Does the author consider native involvement with the Griffin and it's crew?
Or how many furs in her hold were acquired from natives by being willingly traded?
A ship above the rapids was a feat. But certainly not unheard of or unseen by any native prior.
When natives frequented sites below, they encountered ships people and trade. Only the ship size was different.
It's the people you do business with firstly that matters.
If you do business with , and want to continue to do business with a people , are you going to cuss their vehicle?
Most groups of natives wanted that ability. And there were groups of natives that controlled the trades of other groups of natives. Why would you give up having a direct ability , vs having to go through a middleman?
Old Bookaroo
Silver Member
- Dec 4, 2008
- 4,318
- 3,510
Agreed - the curse stuff sounds like hooey to me.
I have a question about carbon dating. I understand that process can determine the age of an organic object (within a year? I don't know about that). But how can it determine when a tree was cut down and made into a ship?
It's striking how clear that Lake Michigan water is. Zebra mussels?
Good luck to all,
The Old Bookaroo
I have a question about carbon dating. I understand that process can determine the age of an organic object (within a year? I don't know about that). But how can it determine when a tree was cut down and made into a ship?
It's striking how clear that Lake Michigan water is. Zebra mussels?
Good luck to all,
The Old Bookaroo
Smithbrown
Bronze Member
- May 22, 2006
- 1,002
- 831
- Thread starter
- #4
For 17th century material dendrochronology is a more reliable dating tool. The National Museum od Denmark dendro-ed the Anholt guns beds- always "said" to be 14th or 15th century, to discover they were c1520s. 93-10.pdf (natmus.dk)
- Jan 21, 2016
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Dendrochronology, is what they would have used, I guess the artical just never mentioned it, very interesting shipwreck,
agflit
Hero Member
- Mar 25, 2015
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- Primary Interest:
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Zebra mussels last 30 years and now...Quagga mussels. They have covered EVERYTHING.....
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