blunts......oh and axes

[mission]

i didnt want to hijack the tool id post....i have a few blunts in my collection that im sure are for hunting and not reworked into scrapers. they were are no different than todays blunts for arrows. you dont just hurt and animal with one, just cause its not sharp doesnt mean it wont kill, a thump from one of these will take down small game no problem. i have watched a rabbit run off with a arrow because the sharp point didnt hit a vital, but a non penatration hit will break bones or knock em out. easy to see some of you only '' hunt'' artifacts. on a side note i learned as an eagle scout the most important thing in camp is the hatchet so dont throw out those "blanks" or "used cores" or whatever they are being called cause i think there are a lot more axe heads out there than some of you realize. they are a multifunction tool that YOU may not need much around the house but live outdoors for a while and you will see how many tasks can be done with them, different shapes, sizes, sharpnesses. hardstone grooved axes have their place but they chopped alot more than wood, and that is where the flint comes in, the jobs that dont need that straight smooth edge.

 

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[GatorBoy]

A lot of us do hunt game.
Alot of us also have many decades of experience when it comes to factual Archaeology.
As well as the many many misconceptions and incorrect information that goes with individuals making their own interpretations based on a comparatively tiny base of real context derived information and use wear analysis.
This isn't new information people are just figuring out.. professionals have been compiling real data and scientifically analyzing these items for quite a long time now.. chemically testing biological remains on these tools as well.
Alot of us have spent alot of time in the "woods".
You're free to disagree with everything you want.. it's a free country.
Lack of archaeological experience comes through pretty clearly to folks that have devoted large portions of their life to it.
So..... lets see your "blunts" that aren't scrapers reworked from points.

 

[mission]

when i read comments like "natives were expert knappers and wouldnt have made that so poorly" it is plain to see that person has a closed mind no matter how much experience they have. some were experts, but not every person has the same skill set and not every artifact was made by only the most skilled knapper. survival was the name of the game for many of the thousands of years for these people.

 

[GatorBoy]

Even if something came out badly ..to experienced eyes there is still a very deliberate and documented method to the knapping process.
Take some time to study flint knapping ..you will see things that explain and tie up alot of loose ends when it comes to identification.

 

[GatorBoy]

Yeah that quote would have got me too.
Whoever said that must not have as many ugly points as I do.
Here is a few of my Hafted scrapers.

 

[Wyoming Valley Relics]

hardstone grooved axes have their place but they chopped alot more than wood, and that is where the flint comes in, the jobs that dont need that straight smooth edge.

grooved axes to chop wood? not to sure if they were used or even practical for such activities. from what i understand before the Europeans came natives had to rely on what fell and what they could knock down or break on there own.

 

[GatorBoy]

If you're actually serious with that statement take some time right now and research Native American stone axe heads.
Stone axes were made for thousands of years before the Europeans arrived.
Over time they evolved in shape to become what is called a celt.
And just for fun research how dugout canoes were made.
"Later days guys" .

 

[Wyoming Valley Relics]

Yeah that quote would have got me too.
Whoever said that must not have as many ugly points as I do.
Here is a few of my Hafted scrapers.

View attachment 853855

the 2 on the left are perfect examples. notice how the "tip" has a tall edge instead of narrow and sharp . that wasnt done to blunt the point but due to resharpening. with how short they are you gotta imagine they were already sharpened down to the handle and there wasnt enough edge to take any flakes off the other side.

 

[GatorBoy]

It was done to create the proper angle to use as a hafted scraper.
These were used for preparing hides.. have you ever seen someone using a tool to scrape a concrete floor before laying tile?
Or scraping paint..or the bottom of a boat?
Same Physics involved.
These were used To remove a fatty layer And connective tissues From an animal hide.
Most started out As a complete and full projectile point.. Either after breaking or extensive resharpening they were utilized as this tool instead of wasting a good haftable piece of stone.

 

[Wyoming Valley Relics]

Usually made from a larger tree that fell down. Burn the ends till its as long as you want.Dig-out the dug out by burning and chiseling it out repeatedly using a hammerstone and celt probably a peice of leather or wood to lessen the impact of the stone on stone impacts . where does chopping with an axe come in? please correct me if im wrong . i didnt say they didnt have axes till contact I'm saying they didn't have axes capable of chopping wood till then.

 

[GatorBoy]

Here they are with projectile points from the same area.

 

[mission]

i would agree the examples you have look like scrapers, when i get a chance i will post a variation that would be useless as a scraper but is not a sharp point, a dull true blunt point, not to short to be reworked to a point if needed, not flat,not different that todays blunts. the items i call flint axes are knapped, to the shape and any
'expert" can see it.

 

[GatorBoy]

Usually made from a larger tree that fell down. Burn the ends till its as long as you want.Dig-out the dug out by burning and chiseling it out repeatedly using a hammerstone and celt probably a peice of leather or wood to lessen the impact of the stone on stone impacts . where does chopping with an axe come in? please correct me if im wrong . i didnt say they didnt have axes till contact I'm saying they didn't have axes capable of chopping wood till then.

You can't use a rotted fallen tree to do that.
You also can't wait for Mother Nature to knock one over.
Look... this is not new information.
Good luck with your studies.

 

[GatorBoy]

i would agree the examples you have look like scrapers, when i get a chance i will post a variation that would be useless as a scraper but is not a sharp point, a dull true blunt point, not to short to be reworked to a point if needed, not flat,not different that todays blunts. the items i call flint axes are knapped, to the shape and any
'expert" can see it.

During the knapping process sometimes something called stacking happens either because of the stone itself or lack of experience.
That creates a thick unfinished looking specimen with a blunt rounded off and stubby tip.
Those pieces were likely tossed and never used it all.

 

[kansa54]

Usually made from a larger tree that fell down. Burn the ends till its as long as you want.Dig-out the dug out by burning and chiseling it out repeatedly using a hammerstone and celt probably a peice of leather or wood to lessen the impact of the stone on stone impacts . where does chopping with an axe come in? please correct me if im wrong . i didnt say they didnt have axes till contact I'm saying they didn't have axes capable of chopping wood till then.

Go to Flintknapper.com. It should pull up megalithics home 2. This is Larry Kinsella's web page. Scroll down and watch Larry's videos using stone axes. You should find this quite informative. Larry's not the only one to chop wood with stone axes, I've seen others.

 

[wetfly]

Stone axe in action

 

[mission]

you havent even seen my pieces and you assume they were throw aways? thats an expert opinion ! one breath is "expert knappers" the next is "they threw that chunk away" i have tiny points and they threw away large pieces as junk? your living in a modern world watching to many hobby knappers make beautiful stuff and throwing big flakes out. they are not making stuff to survive with and they rarely walk to a flint deposite and carry stone back home to the airconditioned garage. i have a couple steel knives from the 40's ? that are resharpened to almost nothing, nowadays if a knife gets dull you throw it and buy a new one, like the repurposed points show these people did not waste and to say "they couldnt use that for anything cause it stacked on them so they threw it away is" is ......funny

 

[painterx7]

I saw a guy make short work of felling a tree with stone axes I was amazed people still do it got the love of it I guess I think the largest hard stone axe head found weighed 35 pounds lol for what it's worth

 

[painterx7]

That blunt that guy has a pic of if that arrowhead next to it is 2 inches would make it about 8 to 10 inches long That's a big piece

 

[mission]

so there are hunters on here? have you shot big game? with a gun ? did the animal drop in its tracks stiff as a board or did you ever have to use a razor sharp knife to finish the job? i have and if i that knife didnt exist to me i might take say a flint axe and crack the animal on the head to finish the job, ive never seen it documented just how natives brought down game for sure but i know how hard it is with modern equipment for basicly entertainment, not survival, they did not live by perfect points and fully grooved axes alone and if you say these axes were ceramonial or for show.....why an axe unless it was already the most important tool around? i have guns for "show" and guns to shoot i can see where a hunter is telling his story to the tribe and uses a beautiful spear and hatchet in his demo, but used more crude tool to do the hunting,less is lost if the crude tools are lost or broken, you leave your prize stuff at home....but im not an expert so tell me im wrong