City parks and beaurocrats

[mikeandwife91]

In our little town, my wife and I have already been told by the supervisor running the park system that we are not allowed to metal detect on any of the playing fields on park property. That hasn't set well with me for a long time, but we have honored their rules. This past year, a friend of mine from church was elected to city council, and as luck would have it, he is in charge of the parks. Since I already knew how the supervisor of parks felt about metal detecting, I wrote my friend a rather lengthy email laying out a plan using a permit system with guidelines about metal detecting for the general public. I offered my assistance in helping them make up the guidelines. We are very meticulous about our holes and cleanliness and would want others to be as well. My friend liked the idea, and was going to forward my email to the supervisor, then start a discussion about it. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Anyone else helped their city government implement a metal detecting program? Some thoughts would be nice if so. I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

In our little town, my wife and I have already been told by the supervisor running the park system that we are not allowed to metal detect on any of the playing fields on park property.......

Just curious: Is this an actual written rule in the city park's rules, or city laws somewhere? Eg.: "No metal detectors"? Or is this something that came from an encounter or booting at some time? (ie.: a "policy", morphed from someone's opinion that you might leave marks or scars, yet not an actual specific rule of no metal detectors). Or did this supervisor's saying this come from you having gone in and asking ahead of time: "can I metal detect?"

The reason I ask this, is we had a situation in my town, back in the 1980s, where a new person that moved here, took it upon themselves to go into city hall park's dept, and ask "can I metal detect in the parks?". Apparently his question got shunted back and forth between various desks, underwent legal review, etc... and presto: He got a "no". Then the new person showed up at our club meeting that month. When the show & tell time of the meeting was going on, someone held up an old silver coin, and said "found in central park". The new person raised their hand in objection: "I thought it was illegal to detect the parks here?" The rest of us turned around, looked at him, and said "since when?" and "who told you this?" And then he went on to tell about how he'd been asking around at city hall upon moving here. Now the ODD thing was, detecting had simply gone on here since the dawn of detectors (1960s even), and no one had ever had a problem before. In fact, it had never occurred to any of us that there should be, or that we needed to "ask", etc... I mean, no one cared (even park personell had often-time asked us to help him find sprinkler heads, for instance). You can see here that this is strictly a case of "no one cared, till you asked" type thing. The danger of this being that you can GUESS what happens when that same city official, who handed you his princely edict, passes by the park and see an md'r in the future: He's going to remember the earlier inquiry, and think "aha! there's one of THEM" and start booting others.

But if I've got you wrong, and this is d/t an actual law, or an actual booting, then disregard.

 

[mikeandwife91]

My boss's favorite quote is it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. That's not my style. I did ask before we got our detectors out. It is not written down anywhere that I know of, but that's because nobody thought about it and most of our fields are less than 5 years old. This may be one of those times when doing the right thing maybe wasn't the right thing (in some people's mind anyhow). But God still let's me know when I'm doing the right thing or wrong thing, and this to me was right. Hopefully city council will see things my way here. Thanks for your insight.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"right thing"

How come the "right thing" can't be: Looking it up for ones-self?

If there is no specific prohibitions saying "no metal detecting", then ........presto .... there's no prohibitions. And no need to "ask forgiveness" for doing something that was "not prohibited". So I'm a little confused with your take. It presumes there is something inherently wrong or evil about our hobby, or that it needs "permission", to begin with, etc....

I think you became a case of "no one cared till you asked". But .... oh well.

My boss's favorite quote is it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. That's not my style. I did ask before we got our detectors out. It is not written down anywhere that I know of, but that's because nobody thought about it and most of our fields are less than 5 years old. This may be one of those times when doing the right thing maybe wasn't the right thing (in some people's mind anyhow). But God still let's me know when I'm doing the right thing or wrong thing, and this to me was right. Hopefully city council will see things my way here. Thanks for your insight.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

If i dont see a sign that says " no metal detecting by local ordinance what ever, i detect.

 

[LiquidAsset]

If i dont see a sign that says " no metal detecting by local ordinance what ever, i detect. ---Treasure__Hunter

Yes, that is correct. BUT if an employee stops you, go straight to the ranger or top dog of the park. Tons of times they have said yes to me versus the employee telling me NO. I get an over ride.

 

[TN_INDIAN]

same here if i c no sign saying i cant detect then im all over it if its for the public that is. But i always go out my way to take all my trash findings from holes and pick up other trash i c so if someone does ask me n a smart manner way i show them my bag which is full of trsh most time. And i try to do my best at cutting plugs out and covering my tracks. love it at the parks here always finding clad and im sure just a matter of time before i find gold r diamionds.

 

[maipenrai]

Probably the wrong type of hobby, if you feel you need special "permission" to detect. This might snowball into all parks to require a permit. Pay your $10 for the year, and you get to pick up the pennies and trash! Great idea! Any signs about frisbys not allowed? Its just too easy for an official to make up his own rules, playing God of the parks, deciding what and who is allowed. If it is not a written rule, then its his own made up rule.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

" If it is not a written rule, then its his own made up rule."

maipenrai, oh so true. And while that may seem "arbitrary" yet it's what we ourselves set ourselves up for, when we think we need to "ask", in the first place. Think of the psychological implications to the person you're asking: The mere fact that someone is standing in front of them "asking permission", merely implies that "permission was therefore needed" to begin with! (lest why would you be standing there asking them, if it didn't need their approval?). This subconscious effect is not lost on the person fielding your "pressing question". So they will bestow on you their princely "yes" or "no", since afterall, you put the authority in their court, by the mere effect of your asking.

Sheesk, its as if we can be our own worst enemies, eh? And what makes it bad for the rest of the hobbyists in those locales, is not the simple "no" to *just* that one individual. But the fact that often-times these "no's" turn into actual rules (or "policies" anyhow). In other words: guess what will happen when that same bureaucrat sees another md'r in the park? He'll remember the earlier inquiry, and think "aha, there's one of THEM", and start booting others! I've seen this happen at places where no one ever had a problem before.

 

[dholland02]

If there's no signs I'm hunting. If the guy says something to you again tell him your doing nothing wrong your filling all holes, and there is mo signs that say not detecting so have a nice day.
Happened to me once Havnt seen the guy since.

 

[Scottyboy]

Never really hurts to take a look at the municipal code for your city/county.

Just a quick peek at the Akron municipal code, I don't see anything specifically prohibiting MD'ing in your area parks. I'm no legal expert though, and you should do your own research.

Municode - look at section 96 regarding Parks

I'm no legal expert though, and you should do your own research, but in my eyes if there is no law or ordinance prohibiting an activity, then it shouldn't be a problem.

I've never been challenged in my town while MD'ing in a city or county park, but you can be sure, in my backpack... I have a folder that contains a printout of the municipal code where it pertains to parks and recreation for both my city and county.This way, if I am challenged, I already have my ammunition ready.

 

[bluehunter1973]

I agree if its not in your town rules then let them boot you out. Yea its great to get permission but also remind them if there is no law on the books then you as a tax paying member of your town needs to inform him he cant take it upon himself to make a law. Its easier to catch flies with honey than vinegar but ShXt works also. Tell them next election you might vote or for the next guy or actually become the next guy.

 

[blynch35]

i think this is how it all started in ca. going to snowball now wow.

 

[Jodsterag]

I'm new to metal detecting and was curious about this exact question so I checked our city's ordinances and found the following: "Flowers, shrubs, trees, and artificial improvements.
It shall be unlawful for any person to cut, deface, or mark any park property, or to handle, cut, pluck, injure, damage, or destroy any flower, shrub, or tree, or to deface, mark, injure, damage, or destroy any natural or artificial improvement in any park or recreation area."

What do you think?

 

[maipenrai]

Your not digging up flowers or bushes are you? You did a plug, recover your target, replace the plug, and leave not damage. Not always easy to do that, but you can always practice on your own lawn, until your satisfied your not leaving a mess, but you need a good digger for that also.

 

[markincypress]

I'm new to metal detecting and was curious about this exact question so I checked our city's ordinances and found the following: "Flowers, shrubs, trees, and artificial improvements.
It shall be unlawful for any person to cut, deface, or mark any park property, or to handle, cut, pluck, injure, damage, or destroy any flower, shrub, or tree, or to deface, mark, injure, damage, or destroy any natural or artificial improvement in any park or recreation area."

What do you think?

Leave the "flowers, shrubs and tree's alone" and stick to the grass. Sounds like this was meant to keep folks from picking flowers, digging up shrubs or cutting down tree's.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I'm new to metal detecting and was curious about this exact question so I checked our city's ordinances and found the following: "Flowers, shrubs, trees, and artificial improvements.
It shall be unlawful for any person to cut, deface, or mark any park property, or to handle, cut, pluck, injure, damage, or destroy any flower, shrub, or tree, or to deface, mark, injure, damage, or destroy any natural or artificial improvement in any park or recreation area."

What do you think?

Jodsterag, here's the answer to this question: All such verbage, that disallows "alterations", "defacement", "vandalism", "cutting", "damaging", etc.. etc... blah blah blah... ALL distinctly and inherently refer to the END result. Do they not? So if you leave your area exactly as you found it (covering back, fluffing up, leaving no marks, etc...), the you have not "altered" "defaced", "vandalized" "cut", or "damaged" anything, now have you??

Sure, someone may "take issue" with the temporary evil interum process of retrieval, and debate your semantics. Pick a low traffic time and AVOID such kill-joy lookie-lous.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Connecticut do no allow people to search state forests, parks and beaches unless it is on beaches. It is so sad.

 

[joecherry]

connecticut sam "state" parks and "public" parks are not one in the same

 

[joecherry]

unless i am mistaken. I am from illinois and it requires a permit at any state park, but i have been meticulously researching my city ordinances and the pekin park district and i have found nothing except the removal of trees and shrubs, alcoholic beverages, and park hours.
so im in the clear eh? thats what i have assumed anyways but you can get yourself into trouble making assumptions..
i dare not go and ask in fear of refusal.