✅ SOLVED CS Pipe bowl?

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
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NEW YORK
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Hey y, all!
I found this pipe bowl while metal detecting in the woods. It was laying on the surface besides being covered up by a few leaves. Can anyone identify this pipe? It's missing the stem, but it has what appears to be the letters CS And then maybe a crown above that? Any help identifying this would be much appreciated
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OP
Sam Holden

Sam Holden

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Sep 26, 2020
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Does anyone know a date range on this?
 
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VaGent

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Apr 20, 2021
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"Heel Stamps Marks on the base of the heel were primarily used between about 1580 and 1730. The earliest marks were often symbols rather than initials. The use of symbols continued after initial or name marks became more common and examples can be found right through to the twentieth century." http://www.pipearchive.co.uk/howto/maker.html
 
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smokeythecat

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Nov 22, 2012
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Probably something like "Charles Smith" or whatever, the Confederate government had a hard enough time supplying uniforms and good to deal with pipe bowls. I like the bowl, it's quite nice. I'd say made late 18th to early 19th century.
 
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Sam Holden

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
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115
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"Heel Stamps Marks on the base of the heel were primarily used between about 1580 and 1730. The earliest marks were often symbols rather than initials. The use of symbols continued after initial or name marks became more common and examples can be found right through to the twentieth century." http://www.pipearchive.co.uk/howto/maker.html
Thank you!
 
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OP
Sam Holden

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
71
115
NEW YORK
Detector(s) used
Minelab Equinox 800, Bounty Hunter Tracker iv
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
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Probably something like "Charles Smith" or whatever, the Confederate government had a hard enough time supplying uniforms and good to deal with pipe bowls. I like the bowl, it's quite nice. I'd say made late 18th to early 19th century.
Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks!
 
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Red-Coat

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Dec 23, 2019
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What a nice find. I can’t offer any explanation for why it was found on the surface covered only by some leaves but everything about that pipe says late 17th Century, with the white kaolin and the crown in the maker’s mark indicating it to be a European import. I’m open to being shot down, but here’s my views…

I have flipped and oriented your picture with the heel in the resting position and added a stem to show what the profile would have been:

Clay Pipe Profile.jpg

Note the extreme slope of the bowl away from the stem. That’s really not something you see on pipes after the end of the 17th Century. The bowl size for pipes also progressively increased as tobacco became less expensive, so very early pipes have tiny bowls and later ones range up to massive. Yours is about ¾ inch diameter, so late 1600s would be consistent with that. You’ll find multiple charts on the net giving date ranges for various bowl profiles/sizes. They don’t all agree with one another and can be subject to a significant +/- beyond the suggested ranges but compare yours to the one at the end of the third row on this chart, broadly assigned to the period 1670-1690:

Clay Pipe Bowl Shapes (1580-1840).jpg

I believe this is a Dutch pipe and there are several possible makers based in the pipe-making centre of Gouda who used a ‘CS’ heel mark in various lettering styles, both with and without a crown above. These were:

Cornelis Stevensz. de Jonge (ie the younger) [1660-1673]
Cornelis Slingerland [1737-c1742 and possibly later]
Jan van Velsen [1782-c1805]

CS Marks.jpg
[Ref: “Goudse pijpenmakers en hun merken” by J. van der Meulen]


The style is not consistent with 18th/19th Century dates for van Velsen, so I think it’s one of the others and my gut feel is for Cornelis Stevensz with the 1660-1673 dates. I’m still left uncomfortable with the find circumstances for a pipe that early though.
 
Last edited:
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Sam Holden

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
71
115
NEW YORK
Detector(s) used
Minelab Equinox 800, Bounty Hunter Tracker iv
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
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What a nice find. I can’t offer any explanation for why it was found on the surface covered only by some leaves but everything about that pipe says late 17th Century, with the white kaolin and the crown in the maker’s mark indicating it to be a European import. I’m open to being shot down, but here’s my views…

I have flipped and oriented your picture with the heel in the resting position and added a stem to show what the profile would have been:

View attachment 2054729

Note the extreme slope of the bowl away from the stem. That’s really not something you see on pipes after the end of the 17th Century. The bowl size for pipes also progressively increased as tobacco became less expensive, so very early pipes have tiny bowls and later ones range up to massive. Yours is about ¾ inch diameter, so late 1600s would be consistent with that. You’ll find multiple charts on the net giving date ranges for various bowl profiles/sizes. They don’t all agree with one another and can be subject to a significant +/- beyond the suggested ranges but compare yours to the one at the end of the third row on this chart, broadly assigned to the period 1670-1690:

View attachment 2054730

I believe this is a Dutch pipe and there are several possible makers based in the pipe-making centre of Gouda who used a ‘CS’ heel mark in various lettering styles, both with and without a crown above. These were:

Cornelis Stevensz. de Jonge (ie the younger) [1660-1673]
Cornelis Slingerland [1737-c1742 and possibly later]
Jan van Velsen [1782-c1805]

View attachment 2054731
[Ref: “Goudse pijpenmakers en hun merken” by J. van der Meulen]


The style is not consistent with 18th/19th Century dates for van Velsen, so I think it’s one of the others and my gut feel is for Cornelis Stevensz with the 1660-1673 dates. I’m still left uncomfortable with the find circumstances for a pipe that early though.
Oh my gosh! Thank you so much!
 
Upvote 2
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Sam Holden

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
71
115
NEW YORK
Detector(s) used
Minelab Equinox 800, Bounty Hunter Tracker iv
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #9
What a nice find. I can’t offer any explanation for why it was found on the surface covered only by some leaves but everything about that pipe says late 17th Century, with the white kaolin and the crown in the maker’s mark indicating it to be a European import. I’m open to being shot down, but here’s my views…

I have flipped and oriented your picture with the heel in the resting position and added a stem to show what the profile would have been:

View attachment 2054729

Note the extreme slope of the bowl away from the stem. That’s really not something you see on pipes after the end of the 17th Century. The bowl size for pipes also progressively increased as tobacco became less expensive, so very early pipes have tiny bowls and later ones range up to massive. Yours is about ¾ inch diameter, so late 1600s would be consistent with that. You’ll find multiple charts on the net giving date ranges for various bowl profiles/sizes. They don’t all agree with one another and can be subject to a significant +/- beyond the suggested ranges but compare yours to the one at the end of the third row on this chart, broadly assigned to the period 1670-1690:

View attachment 2054730

I believe this is a Dutch pipe and there are several possible makers based in the pipe-making centre of Gouda who used a ‘CS’ heel mark in various lettering styles, both with and without a crown above. These were:

Cornelis Stevensz. de Jonge (ie the younger) [1660-1673]
Cornelis Slingerland [1737-c1742 and possibly later]
Jan van Velsen [1782-c1805]

View attachment 2054731
[Ref: “Goudse pijpenmakers en hun merken” by J. van der Meulen]


The style is not consistent with 18th/19th Century dates for van Velsen, so I think it’s one of the others and my gut feel is for Cornelis Stevensz with the 1660-1673 dates. I’m still left uncomfortable with the find circumstances for a pipe that early though.
I am also a little uncomfortable with it being on the surface, but maybe it was pulled up by one of the nearby trees/frost? The area that I found this is near one of the main roads from the 1700s, Crown Point Road. Again thank you so much for your knowledge it is much appreciated.
 
Upvote 3

VaGent

Full Member
Apr 20, 2021
120
381
Central Virginia
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Currently Deus XP, also have 2 Minelab Explorer XS as backups.
Primary Interest:
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I am also a little uncomfortable with it being on the surface
I dug a Civil War eagle cuff button today that was not even in the soil, it was in the leaf mulch. Not the first one either. Sometimes light weight items just seem to ride on top of the soil.
 

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Sam Holden

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
71
115
NEW YORK
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Minelab Equinox 800, Bounty Hunter Tracker iv
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I dug a Civil War eagle cuff button today that was not even in the soil, it was in the leaf mulch. Not the first one either. Sometimes light weight items just seem to ride on top of the soil.
Nice find!
 
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DJV

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May 15, 2016
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That's a beauty pipe! I'm always on the lookout for pipes while hunting treasures underwater. Back in the pioneer era, the Lads must have smoked a lot ( note the two Lumberjacks in the foreground of the sketch below ), as I find them regularly, often in fast-flowing rivers ( it always amazes me how these fragile clay pipes survive the elements ).
Here are some of my pipe finds ( gonna need a bigger container soon! ):
 

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CaptEsteban

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Jul 26, 2011
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That's a beauty pipe! I'm always on the lookout for pipes while hunting treasures underwater. Back in the pioneer era, the Lads must have smoked a lot ( note the two Lumberjacks in the foreground of the sketch below ), as I find them regularly, often in fast-flowing rivers ( it always amazes me how these fragile clay pipes survive the elements ).
Here are some of my pipe finds ( gonna need a bigger container soon! ):
You have done very well to find so many with their stems .
 
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Sam Holden

Sam Holden

Jr. Member
Sep 26, 2020
71
115
NEW YORK
Detector(s) used
Minelab Equinox 800, Bounty Hunter Tracker iv
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #16
That's a beauty pipe! I'm always on the lookout for pipes while hunting treasures underwater. Back in the pioneer era, the Lads must have smoked a lot ( note the two Lumberjacks in the foreground of the sketch below ), as I find them regularly, often in fast-flowing rivers ( it always amazes me how these fragile clay pipes survive the elements ).
Here are some of my pipe finds ( gonna need a bigger container soon! ):
Those pipes are awesome looking! nice finds!
 
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