Do You Know What Your County Officials Really Think ????

[jog]

I sent the Highways & Trails: "Rights Of The County" pdf that is found on the Jefferson Mining Districts website to my county road dept and also the county commissioners office. The reply I recieved from the County Chief of staff was very scary, Quote: Often forest land owners, such as ODF, often make their roads available for use by the public, but that does not make them public roads. I have also sent this same information to the Douglas County Commissioners in Oregon & have gotten a simular response about Public lands & our roads that access lands open to mineral entry. I would like to challenge all of you out there to get informed & start educating your public afficials & hold them liable for there stupidity & ignorence before we lose all our rights.If you want to continue mining & using Public Lands then step up.
If I can do it with my lack of educationthen then ANYONE can. The information is out there........Excuse the spelling.

 

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[Oregon Viking]

I sent the Highways & Trails: "Rights Of The County" pdf that is found on the Jefferson Mining Districts website to my county road dept and also the county commissioners office. The reply I recieved from the County Chief of staff was very scary, Quote: Often forest land owners, such as ODF, often make their roads available for use by the public, but that does not make them public roads. I have also sent this same information to the Douglas County Commissioners in Oregon & have gotten a simular response about Public lands & our roads that access lands open to mineral entry. I would like to challenge all of you out there to get informed & start educating your public afficials & hold them liable for there stupidity & ignorence before we lose all our rights.If you want to continue mining & using Public Lands then step up.
If I can do it with my lack of educationthen then ANYONE can. The information is out there........Excuse the spelling.

Do You Know What Your County Officials Really Think ?

I sent the Highways & Trails: "Rights Of The County" pdf that is found on the Jefferson Mining Districts website to my county road dept and also the county commissioners office. The reply I recieved from the County Chief of staff was very scary, Quote: Often forest land owners, such as ODF, often make their roads available for use by the public, but that does not make them public roads. I have also sent this same information to the Douglas County Commissioners in Oregon & have gotten a simular response about Public lands & our roads that access lands open to mineral entry. I would like to challenge all of you out there to get informed & start educating your public afficials & hold them liable for there stupidity & ignorence before we lose all our rights.If you want to continue mining & using Public Lands then step up.
If I can do it with my lack of educationthen then ANYONE can. The information is out there........Excuse the spelling.

I made it larger.

 

[wingmaster]

I would send something back asking if he used his personal money to make those roads or tax payer money and tell him if it was tax payer money used it would seem that its a public road then.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Basic fact of law in the United States:

Public roads are based on use by the public - not who paid for or maintained them. It doesn't matter if it was public or private money that paid for the roads.

It doesn't matter whether the county ever recognized or maintained the road. If it was on public land and used by the public before 1976 it is by legal definition a public road.

The public's right to travel over the public lands was granted in the 1866 Mining Act:

SEC. 8. And be it further enacted, That the right of way for the construction of highways over public lands, not reserved for public uses, is hereby granted.

All the lands found in the public land states and not already granted as patents before and after 1866 are defined as public lands. Today's western forest reserves are part of the public lands. If a road on the public lands was used by the public prior to 1976 it is still legally a public road no matter what a county, state or forest service management plan says. It doesn't matter if the management changed or the land was sold or traded after the public had used it for a road. The right to travel on a public way can not be removed by new laws or changes in land status.

All those topo maps made before 1976 have roads that were used by the public clearly marked on them. County maps made before 1976 also have public roads clearly marked on them. You don't need the approval of the county or the forest service to travel on those public roads. Neither the County, State or Federal governments can take away the public right to travel on public roads.

Your county officials may be fools or crooked but they can never change the fact of the public roads that have already been established no matter how they vote. The county, state and federal governments only agree to maintain some roads with your money. By law the roads are owned by the people, not the government.

On the other hand if enough people are mislead into believing they have to do what their county officials say they have to do we will become a nation of people following orders given by our own public servants. No matter what your real rights are if you want to believe that you have to pay $10 to park in the forest or you can't to travel on the public way because of a new travel management plan you have given up your rights. You have become the problem.

Heavy Pans

 

[timberjack]

So if the usfs blocks access whats your recourse? Gates are everywhere!

 

[2cmorau]

Thanks Jog for posting
Thanks OV for allowing me to read
Thanks Clay for the section number.
Timber, bring a copy to forest service talk and present. FS right down the street from me now, but over the years i was able to access areas with a gate just simply asking for a key, i know others have had problems with FS or DFG, file folder in my truck is about 1/4 inch thick never had to access bring out to prove my point, simple conversation and knowing your rights makes all the diff. While operating HB had a visit from DFG great conversation no probs, no citation went on his marry way

 

[jog]

Oregon also has this State Statute,

Oregon Revised Statute, ORS, § 368, partially reproduced below, is a restatement of jurisdiction overestablished roads/trails being in the county, private rights, the source of the authority, e.g., grants as an​

obligation of the government, i.e., Trust, and not in any federal or state agency to obliterate:

Also it states that,

ORS 368County authority over roads.​

​

(1) Except as provided in this section or as otherwise specificallyprovided by law, the exercise of governmental powers relating to a road within a county is amatter of county concern.Oregon Law, H.B. 208, enacted that:​

Section 1.​

​

All roads or thoroughfares not hereto fore legally established within the State of Oregon thatmay have heretofore been used, or hereafter be used, for a period of ten (10) consecutive years or moreby the general public for the purpose of travel, without protest, are hereby declared to be county roads.​

Section 2.​

​

No road of public easement shall be altered or vacated except by the county court in themanner now provided by law; and no county shall be bound to work, or improve, or keep in repair​

such road of public easement. Approved February 28, 1901.

 

[goldenIrishman]

It doesn't matter if Oregon put that law on the books or not. The federal laws should trump it every time. Like Clay said, if a road is shown on a topo map that is dated 1976 or before the road can NOT be closed off from public use.

There are however a few ways that the Forest Service around here has tried to do an end around of the laws. By stating that it's for the good of some animal or plant they'll try to close an area off. I've run into this in several locations in the Coronado National Forest. I was going to contact the FS to challenge these closures but since I'm moving up to the Kingman area soon I'm having to let that fight fall to others in this part of the state. Who know... I may run into the same thing up there but that's all BLM land and not part of the forest system.

However.... In an effort to help others that are running into this problem in their own areas I offer this bit of advise. If a road through an area is closed due to some animal of plant protection, request to see a copy of the environmental impact report that is required by law before such a closure can be made. If they can't produce a copy of the report and instead offer a copy of an environmental ASSESSMENT then you know that a full study was never done and the closure is against the law. Many rangers will try to use an Environmental Assessment instead of a full E.I.R. in an effort to save money. A full E.I.R. cost aprox a half million dollars and THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!!!! An E.A.R. only costs about $50 so can you guess why they try to use them as the basis for a road closure? Any road that is closed should have a sign stating the reason for the closure. If there is no sign, then contact the local Forestry Office and ask why the road was closed. If enough of us start doing this, maybe they'll get the hint that we miners are not going to go quietly into the dark night of stolen rights like they seem to wish we would.

 

[KRIKITTS]

PUBLIC LAW 88-657

A. Public Law 88–657,
(The Act of October 13, 1964, commonly known as the Forest Roads And Trails Act),
Roads and trails system; Congressional findings and declaration of policy
AN ACT To enable the Secretary of Agriculture to construct and maintain an adequate system of roads
and trails for the national forests, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress
assembled, That [16 U.S.C. §532]
The Congress hereby finds and declares that the construction and maintenance of an
adequate system of roads and trails within and near the national forests and other lands
administered by the Forest Service is essential if increasing demands for timber, recreation,
and other uses of such lands are to be met; that the existence of such a system would have
the effect, among other things, of increasing the value of timber and other resources
tributary to such roads; and that such a system is essential to enable the Secretary of
Agriculture (hereinafter called the Secretary) to provide for intensive use, protection,
development, and management of these lands under principles of multiple use and
sustained yield of products and services. (Pub. L. 88–657, §1, Oct. 13, 1964, 78 Stat.1089.)


SEC. 5, [16 U.S.C. 536], Copies of all instruments affecting permanent interests in land executed
pursuant to this Act shall be recorded in each county where the lands are located. Copies of all
instruments affecting interests in lands reserved from the public domain shall be furnished to the
Secretary of the Interior.


In the words of the first Chief of the United States Forest Service 1905–1910, Gifford Pinchot, “"The
earth and its resources belong of right to its people." Refresh your memories with this passage from
"The Fight for Conservation", written by Pinchot in 1910:

"The first great fact about conservation is that it stands for development. There has
been a fundamental misconception that conservation means nothing but the husbanding of
resources for future generations. There could be no more serious mistake. Conservation
does mean provision for the future, but it means also and first of all the recognition of
the right of the present generation to the fullest necessary use of all the resources with
which this country is so abundantly blessed."”


http://www.jeffersonminingdistrict.com/BoL/Highways_and_Trails.pdf

 

[fowledup]

A. Public Law 88–657,
(The Act of October 13, 1964, commonly known as the Forest Roads And Trails Act),
Roads and trails system; Congressional findings and declaration of policy
AN ACT To enable the Secretary of Agriculture to construct and maintain an adequate system of roads
and trails for the national forests, and for other purposes.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress
assembled, That [16 U.S.C. §532]
The Congress hereby finds and declares that the construction and maintenance of an
adequate system of roads and trails within and near the national forests and other lands
administered by the Forest Service is essential if increasing demands for timber, recreation,
and other uses of such lands are to be met; that the existence of such a system would have
the effect, among other things, of increasing the value of timber and other resources
tributary to such roads; and that such a system is essential to enable the Secretary of
Agriculture (hereinafter called the Secretary) to provide for intensive use, protection,
development, and management of these lands under principles of multiple use and
sustained yield of products and services. (Pub. L. 88–657, §1, Oct. 13, 1964, 78 Stat.1089.)


SEC. 5, [16 U.S.C. 536], Copies of all instruments affecting permanent interests in land executed
pursuant to this Act shall be recorded in each county where the lands are located. Copies of all
instruments affecting interests in lands reserved from the public domain shall be furnished to the
Secretary of the Interior.


In the words of the first Chief of the United States Forest Service 1905–1910, Gifford Pinchot, “"The
earth and its resources belong of right to its people." Refresh your memories with this passage from
"The Fight for Conservation", written by Pinchot in 1910:

"The first great fact about conservation is that it stands for development. There has
been a fundamental misconception that conservation means nothing but the husbanding of
resources for future generations. There could be no more serious mistake. Conservation
does mean provision for the future, but it means also and first of all the recognition of
the right of the present generation to the fullest necessary use of all the resources with
which this country is so abundantly blessed."”

AMEN, and so recorded! Definitely written when common sense was the rule of law.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Alas... Common sense is no longer so common when it comes to our elected idiots. BUT it can't all be blamed on them I guess. After all the peole did vote them into office. What we need is a candidate or two or three here in the western states that has the guts to stand up for the rights of miners. The judges in Cali sure don't seem to have the guts to follow the law of the land and cowtow to the demands of the greenies with their false science and deep pockets.

The first sign that common sense went out of the political system was when they made it so the common man can't afford to run for dog catcher. When only the rich can afford to run for an office of any type, only the rich will be making the rules.