Early 1800's Royal Navy Packet Service Button and a 2-Cent Coin

[BrianNY]

Out in a muddy field today. Hit a fairly beat up 1864 Two Cent piece and several buttons. Got home to clean them up and got an ID from someone saying the button is a Royal Navy Postal Packet Service button. Not too much information on them out there it seems.

 

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[Wildcat1750]

Excellent button find!
Hope to learn more about it.

 

[BrianNY]

Excellent button find!
Hope to learn more about it.

Thanks, hopefully someone here might know more about them. Seems like they are somewhat rare.

 

[BeenFishin]

Sweet buttons! Today was a button day apparently.

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

Great finds - love those 2 Cent coins !

 

[Salty]

Nice clean up on the goods- did you use the Andres sticks?

 

[pepperj]

Stellar button, what a beauty. Congrats

 

[BrianNY]

Nice clean up on the goods- did you use the Andres sticks?

I lightly brushed the button to get a bit a detail.

 

[BrianNY]

Stellar button, what a beauty. Congrats

Thanks, had a feeling it was going to be a good one while in the muddy field.

 

[Digger RJ]

Very Nice!!! Congrats!!!

 

[CRUSADER]

I've had a Postal Service button (just 1), & not that type, never seen this one before. Very cool, congrats!

 

[BrianNY]

I've had a Postal Service button (just 1), & not that type, never seen this one before. Very cool, congrats!

They were Royal Navy buttons, correct? Or was it worn by civilians?

 

[CRUSADER]

They were Royal Navy buttons, correct? Or was it worn by civilians?

I'm not sure, I thought it was a Govt. Service, like the Post Office, & I think they operated a bit like the Merchant Navy, so yours looks like an Officers Button.

 

[Red-Coat]

That’s a cool button and it has cleaned up nicely. The style of the crown certainly puts it before 1901. I assume the legibility of the backmark has also improved with cleaning but you haven’t shown it. I believe I can read “Meredith” and “Treble Gilt” but can’t make out the first initial of the Meredith mark. I hope it’s an ‘M’.

Perhaps you could kindly confirm whether it is “M. Meredith”, in which case I can tell you more about the maker, the date range, and the organisation of packet services in that period. It would be largely wasted effort if the maker isn’t who I think it is.

 

[BrianNY]

That’s a cool button and it has cleaned up nicely. The style of the crown certainly puts it before 1901. I assume the legibility of the backmark has also improved with cleaning but you haven’t shown it. I believe I can read “Meredith” and “Treble Gilt” but can’t make out the first initial of the Meredith mark. I hope it’s an ‘M’.

Perhaps you could kindly confirm whether it is “M. Meredith”, in which case I can tell you more about the maker, the date range, and the organisation of packet services in that period. It would be largely wasted effort if the maker isn’t who I think it is.

I do believe it is M. Meredith Treble Gilt. The only other initial it can be is an H. It'd be great if you could shed some more light on the button. Thanks

 

[Red-Coat]

OK. I think this is from Melchisedek (Mel) Meredith. He was not a button maker, but a Naval Tailor, and a prestigious one too. Most of the great naval commanders of the period were his clients including Rodney, Hood, Howe, Collingwood and Nelson. He set up business in 1785 at 73 High Street, Portsmouth on the South Coast of England but the button would likely have been made for him in London or Birmingham.

Meredith died in 1814 but, largely due to his relaxed attitude in chasing customers for payment, his 17 year-old son Augustus inherited a business with considerable debts and was compelled to keep it open to try and clear them. Worse still, the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 saw Europe enter a period of peace with a dramatic reduction in the demand for army and navy uniforms. Augustus opened premises in London to try and drum up further business but declared bankruptcy in 1837 and the remaining assets were bought out by Joseph Galt four years later.

So, we can definitely say the button is later George III or George IV (between 1785-1830) or William IV (1830-1837). Given the indented backmark and the nature of the customer, I would put it near the end of Meredith’s period of operation and perhaps during the period when his son was striving to get the business back into profit.

We then come to “packet boats”. These have a long history of operation as an ‘official’ service, dating back to the establishment of the General Post Office in 1660. The postal service was known as the ‘Royal Mail’ because it was built on the distribution system for royal and government documents. Packet boats operated out of a number of ports to particular destinations on regular scheduled services, but with departure and arrival dates somewhat dependent on weather conditions. By the time of your button, the boats were also routinely carrying valuables and passengers. They were fast, medium sized vessels, armed for protection (but lightly so), largely relying on their speed to keep them out of danger.

These boats were not part of the Royal Navy as such, but were privately operated under a Royal Warrant as a government monopoly. From the 18th Century, they also plied across the Atlantic to maintain government contact between Great Britain and its colonies. That situation continued until 1823 when the Admiralty assumed direct control of the services and I believe your button is probably from immediately after that change. The Admiralty began replacing older boats with unsuitable and dilapidated vessels decommissioned at the end of the Napoleonic wars and ultimately with steam vessels rather than sailing ships; but the reliability of the service had already suffered and the government disbanded it in 1850 in favour of fully ‘contracting out’.

 

[BrianNY]

OK. I think this is from Melchisedek (Mel) Meredith. He was not a button maker, but a Naval Tailor, and a prestigious one too. Most of the great naval commanders of the period were his clients including Rodney, Hood, Howe, Collingwood and Nelson. He set up business in 1785 at 73 High Street, Portsmouth on the South Coast of England but the button would likely have been made for him in London or Birmingham.

Meredith died in 1814 but, largely due to his relaxed attitude in chasing customers for payment, his 17 year-old son Augustus inherited a business with considerable debts and was compelled to keep it open to try and clear them. Worse still, the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 saw Europe enter a period of peace with a dramatic reduction in the demand for army and navy uniforms. Augustus opened premises in London to try and drum up further business but declared bankruptcy in 1837 and the remaining assets were bought out by Joseph Galt four years later.

So, we can definitely say the button is later George IV (between 1785-1830) or William IV (1830-1837). Given the indented backmark and the nature of the customer, I would put it near the end of Meredith’s period of operation and perhaps during the period when his son was striving to get the business back into profit.

We then come to “packet boats”. These have a long history of operation as an ‘official’ service, dating back to the establishment of the General Post Office in 1660. The postal service was known as the ‘Royal Mail’ because it was built on the distribution system for royal and government documents. Packet boats operated out of a number of ports to particular destinations on regular scheduled services, but with departure and arrival dates somewhat dependent on weather conditions. By the time of your button, the boats were also routinely carrying valuables and passengers. They were fast, medium sized vessels, armed for protection (but lightly so), largely relying on their speed to keep them out of danger.

These boats were not part of the Royal Navy as such, but were privately operated under a Royal Warrant as a government monopoly. From the 18th Century, they also plied across the Atlantic to maintain government contact between Great Britain and its colonies. That situation continued until 1823 when the Admiralty assumed direct control of the services and I believe your button is probably from immediately after that change. The Admiralty began replacing older boats with unsuitable and dilapidated vessels decommissioned at the end of the Napoleonic wars and ultimately with steam vessels rather than sailing ships; but the reliability of the service had already suffered and the government disbanded it in 1850 in favour of fully ‘contracting out’.

Wow, thank you for such an informative response. You are definitely a wealth of knowledge. I never would have been able to gain that much information on this. Now I have some good history to go along with the button. I appreciate your time.

 

[Red-Coat]

You're welcome. Note that when I typed "later George IV"... that should have read "later George III or George IV". I have corrected it in my original post, but the correction doesn't carry through to you quoting my post.

 

[Erik in NJ]

As usual, a learning experience in each of your posts. Thank you for the interesting and informative post Roger!

OK. I think this is from Melchisedek (Mel) Meredith. He was not a button maker, but a Naval Tailor, and a prestigious one too. Most of the great naval commanders of the period were his clients including Rodney, Hood, Howe, Collingwood and Nelson. He set up business in 1785 at 73 High Street, Portsmouth on the South Coast of England but the button would likely have been made for him in London or Birmingham.

Meredith died in 1814 but, largely due to his relaxed attitude in chasing customers for payment, his 17 year-old son Augustus inherited a business with considerable debts and was compelled to keep it open to try and clear them. Worse still, the Battle of Waterloo in 1815 saw Europe enter a period of peace with a dramatic reduction in the demand for army and navy uniforms. Augustus opened premises in London to try and drum up further business but declared bankruptcy in 1837 and the remaining assets were bought out by Joseph Galt four years later.

So, we can definitely say the button is later George III or George IV (between 1785-1830) or William IV (1830-1837). Given the indented backmark and the nature of the customer, I would put it near the end of Meredith’s period of operation and perhaps during the period when his son was striving to get the business back into profit.

We then come to “packet boats”. These have a long history of operation as an ‘official’ service, dating back to the establishment of the General Post Office in 1660. The postal service was known as the ‘Royal Mail’ because it was built on the distribution system for royal and government documents. Packet boats operated out of a number of ports to particular destinations on regular scheduled services, but with departure and arrival dates somewhat dependent on weather conditions. By the time of your button, the boats were also routinely carrying valuables and passengers. They were fast, medium sized vessels, armed for protection (but lightly so), largely relying on their speed to keep them out of danger.

These boats were not part of the Royal Navy as such, but were privately operated under a Royal Warrant as a government monopoly. From the 18th Century, they also plied across the Atlantic to maintain government contact between Great Britain and its colonies. That situation continued until 1823 when the Admiralty assumed direct control of the services and I believe your button is probably from immediately after that change. The Admiralty began replacing older boats with unsuitable and dilapidated vessels decommissioned at the end of the Napoleonic wars and ultimately with steam vessels rather than sailing ships; but the reliability of the service had already suffered and the government disbanded it in 1850 in favour of fully ‘contracting out’.

 

[JeffInMass]

Sweet finds! Just getting to hunt in January is a bonus- nice job taking full advantage.