Found today in Eastern Washington. Still in disbelief. Didn't think there was anything this old here.

BABALONGOGGLES

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20220625_173902_HDR.jpg
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Upvote 61

CRUSADER

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Could have been dropped 50 years ago by a kid on his way to show & tell. However it got there, it’s a great find. Congratulations.
That is the issue if it's not from a sealed Archeological context. Very difficult to know 'when' it was lost.
Still a cool coin in nice condition, not one I've seen before.
 

Almy

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I found one here in Eastern Canada at a site where I also found early 1800's half penny tokens. Suspect that the stivers were just another "copper" used for trade in that time of scarce coinage here in East Coast colonial times.
 

releventchair

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Also, if anyone knows a way to research fur trade routes through the Americas in the early 1800s, please let me know. Would love to know more about how this coin ended up here.
Congrats!

I have not looked for how far inland Russian traders went on the West coast.
Natives could have transported stuff inland though.

Here's a quick mention of a probe for fur by another group.


[Briefly described below are some of the 1818 fur trade events.

Donald Mackenzie of the North West Company organized expeditions in the Snake Country of eastern Washington, Idaho, and Wyoming . These expeditions included some Iroquois who had been brought in from the east.]

 

unclemac

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Almost without a doubt this coin came to Washington from Canada. During that time period ANYTHING that could pass for a coin circulated in what is now Canada. Stivers are well documented in the bank records and Canadian colonial blue books of the early 19th century.
 
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BABALONGOGGLES

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Almost without a doubt this coin came to Washington from Canada. During that time period ANYTHING that could pass for a coin circulated in what is now Canada. Stivers are well documented in the bank records and Canadian colonial blue books of the early 19th century.
That's what I figured. Been reading a bit about the War of 1812. Wasn't aware of the "anything that could pass for a coin circulated through Canada" bit. Do you know of any good sources to research that more? Was there like a central bank where all Colonial coins ended up to be redistributed? What was the timeframe for this kind of mixed coinage? Anything else you can tell me? I'm fascinated with the fur trade and after I found this, I feel like it's possible to find an 1820 North West Company Token... And I really want to find one or two of those now. Think I'm on a good spot. Thank you for your response. Helps expand my understanding of the time period.
 

unclemac

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That's what I figured. Been reading a bit about the War of 1812. Wasn't aware of the "anything that could pass for a coin circulated through Canada" bit. Do you know of any good sources to research that more? Was there like a central bank where all Colonial coins ended up to be redistributed? What was the timeframe for this kind of mixed coinage? Anything else you can tell me? I'm fascinated with the fur trade and after I found this, I feel like it's possible to find an 1820 North West Company Token... And I really want to find one or two of those now. Think I'm on a good spot. Thank you for your response. Helps expand my understanding of the time period.
This question is right up my main street! I have a massive collection of coins used in the American colonial/federal time period from Mexico to Canada and every thing in-between from coast to coast, starting from the 1500's.

The quickest way to get up to speed on Canada are these two books...


and


The first book goes into detail province by province decade by decade. The second book is Pierre Breton's MUST HAVE book on tokens used in the 19th century. Google "Breton Tokens" to get you started.

A quick answer to your VERY BIG question on Canada is this... The Canada we know did not exist in its present form until 1949 when Newfoundland finally joined. Before that "Canada" was a group of colonies, dominions and territories, each with their own governments, exchange rates, economies and separate coinage issues. The majority of Canada dates itself as a union to 1867.

The problem all the colonies had (America as well) was that the European monarchies had very little interest in the colonies beyond, prestige, resources, accumulation and WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR ME? But this ignores the fact that there was an increasing population, an increasing native economy and an increasing need for some form of exchange (money). So the European governments did very little to solve this need... in fact the European countries needed all the coins they could AT HOME for their own economies. Mexico and Spanish America supplied the WORLD need for coinage for about 350 years. These coins were the U.S. dollar of their day... they were used throughout the Americas, Australia, Asia etc. They were trusted to be pure of content and reliable of weight... plus the Spanish New World gold and silver mines were OVERFLOWING.

So as a result...literally... anything that could pass for a coin did so. One of the more famous examples of this is Montreal militia buttons.


When you consider U.S. history and the 13 colonies, consider too that there were OTHER British/American colonies at this same time that chose NOT to rebel. All of these colonies (the 13 too) were independent of each other and very jealous of their own decision making abilities. This is why the U.S. was set up as (now 50) "sovereign" states within an overarching union. Many had their own minted coins.

Of interest to me (and I guess to you also) is what was used on the LEFT coast. Remember, California was part of Mexico until 1848, the Russians had Alaska (and forts as far south as California) and parts of Oregon territory were disputed with the British. We (Washington State) were populated fairly late in the history of the lower 48. I remember that up until the 1980's we ALWAYS had Canadian coins in our pockets and NO ONE refused to take them.
 
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BABALONGOGGLES

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This question is right up my main street! I have a massive collection of coins used in the American colonial/federal time period from Mexico to Canada and every thing in-between from coast to coast, starting from the 1500's.

The quickest way to get up to speed on Canada are these two books...


and


The first book goes into detail province by province decade by decade. The second book is Pierre Breton's MUST HAVE book on tokens used in the 19th century. Google "Breton Tokens" to get you started.

A quick answer to your VERY BIG question on Canada is this... The Canada we know did not exist in its present form until 1949 when Newfoundland finally joined. Before that "Canada" was a group of colonies, dominions and territories, each with their own governments, exchange rates, economies and separate coinage issues. The majority of Canada dates itself as a union to 1867.

The problem all the colonies had (America as well) was that the European monarchies had very little interest in the colonies beyond, prestige, resources, accumulation and WHAT CAN YOU DO FOR ME? But this ignores the fact that there was an increasing population, an increasing native economy and an increasing need for some form of exchange (money). So the European governments did very little to solve this need... in fact the European countries needed all the coins they could AT HOME for their own economies. Mexico and Spanish America supplied the WORLD need for coinage for about 350 years. These coins were the U.S. dollar of their day... they were used throughout the Americas, Australia, Asia etc. They were trusted to be pure of content and reliable of weight... plus the Spanish New World gold and silver mines were OVERFLOWING.

So as a result...literally... anything that could pass for a coin did so. One of the more famous examples of this is Montreal militia buttons.


When you consider U.S. history and the 13 colonies, consider too that there were OTHER British/American colonies at this same time that chose NOT to rebel. All of these colonies (the 13 too) were independent of each other and very jealous of their own decision making abilities. This is why the U.S. was set up as (now 50) "sovereign" states within an overarching union. Many had their own minted coins.

Of interest to me (and I guess to you also) is what was used on the LEFT coast. Remember, California was part of Mexico until 1848, the Russians had Alaska (and forts as far south as California) and parts of Oregon territory were disputed with the British. We (Washington State) were populated fairly late in the history of the lower 48. I remember that up until the 1980's we ALWAYS had Canadian coins in our pockets and NO ONE refused to take them.
Wow! Thank you for your well thought out response. I'd love to get those books. Price tag is a bit high so I'll see if the local library can get them in for me. During my research of the war of 1812 I have been able to find almost nothing about the west coast, at least East of the Cascades. I know the Spaniards came in through the Strait of Juan de Fuca and explored some of the islands, but I don't know how far inland they ventured.

Is there evidence of white American explorers on the west coast before Lewis & Clark made their way over? I know the North West Trading Company established a base of operations here in 1810 and the Hudson's Bay Company took over some 16 years later, but I have to imagine there were individuals or small groups who came out before then.

It's just such an interesting time for American history on the West coast. I want to give myself the best chance at finding more fur trade items.
 

unclemac

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Some of these books may be free down loads, so check that out. As for white exploration prior to Lewis and Clark, I am unaware however... here are two VERY good books on early Washington exploration. The Bonneville one will describe places you may be familiar with in Eastern WA (1830's) and the Swan book is downright fascination, he was one of about the first 15 white folk in SW WA in 1850 and he goes into great detail with native people, personalities and customs. I know the Swan book is free download.



In the meantime, do some google search on Astoria Oregon and on Fort Vancouver.

AND read this link, it is one hell of a story!

 

philber

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You should look up info on the Pacific Fur Company, which was the first American fur trade company on the west coast. It was formed by John Jacob Astoria in about 1811 (think Astoria, Oregon and Fort Astoria). The book Astoria by Washington Irving is a good read, with enough details about the overland travels of its founding members that you can get a fair idea of where they were in the country at the time of their travels. Not specific enough for exact locations, but ya get a good idea. I know it mentioned exploration parties and/or small forts being built in various areas up the Walla Walla and other eastern WA locations. They also mention the back history of the French fur traders and the Russians, so there were definitely a few explorers in the area pre 1820. Great find!
 

crashbandicoot

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You should look up info on the Pacific Fur Company, which was the first American fur trade company on the west coast. It was formed by John Jacob Astoria in about 1811 (think Astoria, Oregon and Fort Astoria). The book Astoria by Washington Irving is a good read, with enough details about the overland travels of its founding members that you can get a fair idea of where they were in the country at the time of their travels. Not specific enough for exact locations, but ya get a good idea. I know it mentioned exploration parties and/or small forts being built in various areas up the Walla Walla and other eastern WA locations. They also mention the back history of the French fur traders and the Russians, so there were definitely a few explorers in the area pre 1820. Great find!
John Jacob Astor! No ia on the name! Good post otherwise.
 

Red_desert

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Also, if anyone knows a way to research fur trade routes through the Americas in the early 1800s, please let me know. Would love to know more about how this coin ended up here.

There was an Indian tribe owned land, gave permission for a trade route to pacific northwest. Later when wars were fought their graves made all the way to hills close to maybe inside Washington.
 

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