Geology degrees and knowledge.

[blackchipjim]

Good afternoon to all, so as I sit pondering if I will ever have enough of a knowledge base to prospect for gold properly I turn to audience once again. I have for a better part of two years watched countless videos on rocks and minerals. Most on you tube but other sources as well that are available on the Internet if for no other reason than availability. I have learned a lot but not enough and will continue to learn both on the net and in the field when possible. My big question how many of the miners here are certified or have been doing this for a really long time.I am impressed by most of you on this site by the way.

 

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[Bejay]

By golly you just described the Land Matters mission statement and explained exactly how the Land Matters cite is structured....and what it does to help fund itself. It even has a person who is expert at obtaining Grant money...which has become extremely hard to get nowadays. Here I thought you already knew what kind of person Clay was and realized that the Land Matters mission statement as a non-profit educational/informational cite was done by professionals attempting to bring forth knowledge. I would recommend you might want to study how non-profits are structured and also the limitations that exist on "Treasure Net" to request things. Land Matters is being done by an expert professional who donates endless amounts of time. No doubt you find other methods more compliant with how you want to gather specific info. But I can assure you one thing is certain: There is no better information person I know of that has the knowledge Clay has pertaining to mining and all the issues pertaining to it. I see you are a newbie when it comes to the "prospecting/rock hounding/and such. I would suggest you not focus on what you don't like vs like and accept that which gains you an alliance as opposed to making attacks.

One thing I know for certain: Clay is only wanting to convey knowledge and you can see he has not even stood up for himself. He is nothing but an expert professional who spends his life sharing his knowledge. He chooses his words very carefully and in his world "words" matter....far more than you can ever imagine.

Bejay

 

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[Clay Diggins]

WaProspecting I realize you don't understand the context of what is happening with Land Matters and the prospecting community. You are new to this site and prospecting and I applaud your efforts to educate yourself. Your seeming obsession with having "better" information I'll chalk up to inexperience and youth, for now I'll give your hubris a free pass.

Here's some of the background of what you have walked into. Land Matters was started by concerned prospectors and mining professionals who were convinced the constant removal of publicly available information was a detriment to miners and prospectors. You were probably still in school when the BLM removed the working parts of the geocommunicator mapping system in 2011. The geocommunicator was your typical tiny barely functional government map but it had some critical information for prospectors and miners when it sometimes worked. Without things like mining claims mapping and case file access prospectors and miners had to turn to the, also barely functional, LR2000.

There were no visual mapping alternatives available and the unannounced removal of the geocommunicator functions simply predated the removal of the National Atlas and it's 400 interactive map layers of information in 2014. Neither the geocommunicator nor the National Atlas functions were ever fully replaced despite hundreds of millions of dollars in program funds and years of promises.

After that things went rapidly downhill for the serious researcher. Various functional, but scattered, information sources were being closed down to provide a NEW IMPROVED! data access interface. The first effort at that unified data store can be seen at the Data.gov site. Time on that site will leave you wondering where the actual data went, clearly not there despite a huge and ongoing budget. Next came the promise of a NEW IMPROVED! geocommunicator. Three years later we have the Navigator data and mapping site as a replacement. Another worthless boondogle that provides none of the functionality of the previous geocommunicator even when you can get the page to load.

The LR2000 has also been revamped and IMPROVED! to the point of worthlessness. Many features and datasets are still missing from that web interface. The old geocommunicator and LR2000 were clunky and often offline but the NEW IMPROVED! replacements are even worse. The same researchers who used to complain about the barely functional geocommunicator and LR2000 now wish they had those horrible experiences to relive again. The replacement versions are really that bad. This has led to a new standard disclaimer for those "informational" websites:

At this time, the pages on this website are not 100% accessible.

Almost exactly 4 years ago a few of us held a meeting to see if we could find a way to provide the services prospectors, miners and land users had lost in the ongoing government assault on information access. Land Matters, the educational non profit charity, was born out of that effort and has grown in size and functionality every month since. Land Matters is driven by user needs so if you happen to see something "missing" from Land Matters it's a simple matter of contacting them and letting them know your needs. If enough people want a similar service the request becomes an action item and will eventually be included in the resources available on the Land Matters website.

Land Matters was started with a generous donation by one of the members here. This guy isn't known to toot his own horn so I'll do it for him. Bejay is a miner with 40+ years of successful gold mining experience. He knows his geology, techniques and equipment and shares his knowledge with all who are smart enough to ask. It was his donation that gave Land Matters the capital to get started. Bejay is the Chairman of the Board for the Land Matters Charity to this day. Former Olympic athlete, successful businessman and a nice guy with a lot of knowledge and a good heart.

Neither Bejay nor any staff of Land Matters is paid for their service. It's a volunteer organization that relies exclusively on donations from it's supporters. The average donation is about $30. There are no government funds provided or corporate grants. Land Matters doesn't have any advertising and doesn't track or share user information. Those supporters number in the hundreds on Tnet alone so when you criticize Land Matters efforts you might experience some backlash from the people who are helping to create this resource.

I'm a professional cartographer and researcher for the mining industry. I have a "day job" in mining. I'm also a volunteer for Land Matters. I did indeed design and code the mapping interface. Sometime when you get some more experience with mapping I'd be happy to explain to you the advantages of a true interactive mapping application. The Executive Director of Land Matters is a spatial database expert and a former forensic accountant for several large non profits. She isn't paid either even though her credentials have allowed her to perform as CFO for several large corporations and non profits. Land Matters has a great group of volunteers to help them including Landsmen, Mining Engineers, Surveyors and several degreed professionals. For all these people Land Matters is a labor of love.

Land Matters user base would probably surprise you. Among the millions of researchers who visit the site each year some of our biggest users are the Department of Interior, BLM, Forest Service, several highly ranked Universities, several large mining companies, State governments and many visitors from more than 100 countries. Land Matters is ranked in the top 1% of websites both in the U.S. and internationally. All that in less than 4 years online with an annual budget of less than $10,000.

Land Matters is far from being perfect. It is the most current information source for mining claims maps on the web and provides the only online resource that includes land management, PLSS, geology and much more critical information in one place.

Now you've learned a little more about Land Matters. Maybe that will help you understand why Land Matters has as it's core mission to inform and educate.

Heavy Pans

 

[Bejay]

Good afternoon to all, so as I sit pondering if I will ever have enough of a knowledge base to prospect for gold properly I turn to audience once again. I have for a better part of two years watched countless videos on rocks and minerals. Most on you tube but other sources as well that are available on the Internet if for no other reason than availability. I have learned a lot but not enough and will continue to learn both on the net and in the field when possible. My big question how many of the miners here are certified or have been doing this for a really long time.I am impressed by most of you on this site by the way.

Attempting to get the thread back on topic I will offer another opinion that may be of help. Any prospector that spends endless hours/years digging for "gold" in an area that has gold deposits will gain a lot of knowledge and expertise from their hands on workings. One does not need a full degree in geology to gain some expertise in prospecting/locating/mining. General Geology courses such as Geology 101 afford the prospector/miner the ability to understand what they are seeing and why. Many gold mining areas have books written about them.....some more scientific than generalized observations. Geology utilizes a whole language of unique terms/terminology that afford an individual some understanding of scientific data/info. For many prospecting/mining can be very seasonal and if one can simply obtain a general geology text book that is used at a major university: one can learn an awful lot. Lets take an example of placer gold being deposited. That occurrence in geologic time is endless and for endless reasons. When one encounters things in the field while prospecting it is really nice to know what you are dealing with and why. I could spend endless hours describing such occurrences. That understanding helps make determinations; but the "doing the work" gets the gold out of the ground. Most gold bearing areas have been discovered. And most have data/research/geologic mapping/etc/etc on them. The internet offers a lot of info today...but when you are actually out in the field working; the geologic knowledge is helpful. There is so much in the study of geology. Glacial deposition vs stream/river erosion. Desert deposition/dispersion/wind. Understanding and identifying minerals is helpful. Understanding intrusive igneous rocks is helpful. Understanding simple stream/river patterns is helpful. But your initial question asked if miners had the geologic background vs not. Probably not so much geologic background as simple hands on doing it.

Bejay

 

[blackchipjim]

I have had numerous threads from other sites of different venues jackbooted so to speak. I don't want this thread locked because of discourse . I do appreciate the help all you gentlemen and ladies may add to my simple questions. I don't have the expertise or experience being a greenhorn in the gold prospecting genre. Anybody here has opinions and that is a good thing. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[ClaimStake]

land matters is a very useful tool in finding maps and claim history.
promoting LM is not necessary here. it's a utility to most people not a business. totally free.

many thanks and tons of likes to clay diggings.

 

[ClaimStake]

geology is a still a very incomplete science, there's is much to do mechanically with the terrain that is very poorly understood.
if you're trying to study rocks and minerals you'll learn a lot from geology. but as far as how things are moving around and forming. things will move in ways you wouldn't expect.
sometimes all you can do is dig.

 

[Rob in KS]

It's kind of like how we study sub-atomic particles. Its like we crash two cars into each other, pick up the parts and try to figure out what makes them work.

 

[Goldwasher]

It's kind of like how we study sub-atomic particles. Its like we crash two cars into each other, pick up the parts and try to figure out what makes them work.

Meh... it's so much more understood than that it's quite amazing


#2 when cars crash together the results will vary from crash to crash ,much more than what we see in things like quantum physics and geology.

C. people describe future physics discoveries and geologic deposits based on hard science years before they reap the rewards.

All based on ....predictability!!!

These guys are building tools to show them things they already knew were happening. But, couldn't see until they made the thing to create what math told them......... It's crazy stuff

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Prospectors find gold mines worth tens to hundreds of millions.

Geologists find gold districts and mines worth billions.

 

[ClaimStake]

what's really neat in chaos prediction, or an aspect of how it works anyway. is that if yo sit and repeat the same scenario over and over.
you'll find that there are only a certain number of possibilities in movement/action.
if you have a strong enough imagination you can actually visualize and predict the possible set ups and processes of a system type.

implying that there are unforeseeable variables. implies that you concept or theory is incomplete or incorrect.
what I'm doing involves a set number of scalars properties worked in volumetric fields involving geometry and mechanics (interdimensional machinery). using quantities(whole numbers) allows us to define a resolution to space/eather. but quantum mechanics wont predict motion.
a continuously changing topography can not be predicted without direct observation.

now if only you can figure out how to indirectly observe a phenomenon.

the correct theory is the one that doesn't have "anomalies". and all the variables are known.
it is possible, I'm doing it.

learning the inner workings of reality is beyond belief, and bazar is an understatement.

 

[Goldwasher]

Well, let us know when you turn a well working profiting industry on its ear.

Also take note of how you ignore all those facts and how geologists predict and discover constantly based on a very solid set of rules based on observation and proven results.

To say it is "poorly" understood is a huge misstatement. Basing it on a desire to change it. So, an individual feels that they can understand it better or just not even try...well, That just doesn't make much sense at all.

Fact is an understanding of geology as far as it has been established is a net gain for a prospector.

Skipping over it for the sake of delving into the fringe.. with no practical application

 

[ClaimStake]

lol, you're about to know. you think all I'm doing is gold mining.I'm now an interdimensional engineer.
development takes time, planning, people, resources. regardless of how much money/gold you got.

I know things you couldn't comprehend. you'd get a big head ache. obviously my last post was way over your head.
maybe I should have said "kinetics" is a poorly understood science. geology has more to do with rock types and chemistry than structural and mechanical physics.
yeah some try to explain how things form, but fail terribly. said "rules" aren't very solid.
anything of any real "practical application" I wouldn't put out too freely. knowledge can be very valuable. and sometimes dangerous.

there is such a thing as "disruptive technology" and "disruptive intelligence".
I have a lot of work to do.
fringe, you have no idea.

 

[Mgumby16]

On another note, if any of you are looking for good read about geology and mineral exploration take a look at the book Intrepid Explorer. Its a very interesting read, and delves into what this original post was about.

 

[Bejay]

OK...different fields of study offer different perceptions and understanding. Geophysics and Geochemistry offer knowledge as well as stratigraphy and many other geologic studies....(quaternary geology...etc). The original question basically asks: does "earth science studies" offer the miner any benefit. Kind of a easy answer in my opinion. I will be studying some structural maps today...and the ability to understand and comprehend their meaning adds value to my quest for what I am looking for...not gold today but rather another mineral.

Yep

Bejay

 

[gold tramp]

Im just lookin for gold! Will take silver.
Geology it helps.
Gt....

 

[ClaimStake]

mapping a structure vs. how it's structuring are two different things. no current field of geology or science can properly explain this.

"the universe is an endless collection of illusions, one of which is randomosity."
if you actually knew how the terrain moves and forms you would find that you could control it. and maybe more, think about that.

maybe some people have known about some things for a long time that if you found out about you would be very thankful for keeping secret.
you know like top secret. we do have such a thing.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Interdimensional engineer

 

[ClaimStake]

space is a "thing" all phenomenon (matter/energy, same things actually) are literally made up of space.

it's how it's geometrically structured in an area in relation to the structure of the space/media around that area, that determines the phenomenon and action in that location.
everything everywhere in nature is governed by this physics.
including the formation of the terrain.

as space or media/energies move, flow around. they will naturally "organize" into an endless variety of geometries. kinda like fractals. these "geometries" depending on there position, motion, and specific shape in relation to each other, interact mechanically.

being able to visualize this sort of mechanics is known or not known as interdimensional engineering.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

space is a "thing" all phenomenon (matter/energy, same things actually) are literally made up of space.

it's how it's geometrically structured in an area in relation to the structure of the space/media around that area, that determines the phenomenon and action in that location.
everything everywhere in nature is governed by this physics.
including the formation of the terrain.

as space or media/energies move, flow around. they will naturally "organize" into an endless variety of geometries. kinda like fractals. these "geometries" depending on there position, motion, and specific shape in relation to each other, interact mechanically.

being able to visualize this sort of mechanics is known or not known as interdimensional engineering.

Space is defined by physics as the absence of energy and matter, without getting into the technical quantum mechanics of the fabric of space-time. All things contain space, but only a void is made up literally of space.

It's hard to take you seriously with your grammar and spelling if you're going to promote yourself as an inter-disciplinary physicist, engineer, or geomechanical analyst.

 

[ClaimStake]

oh boi

space is the ability to define existence between two arbitrary points. without space you have no existence.
"what is" matter and energy.

you can go on and on about particles waves and strings but at the end of the day the question still remains.
what are these things?

last I checked treasurenet wasnt a scientific journal I dont think spelling or grammar is very important
in fact ill intentionally refrain

enjoy your bit o au dust