πŸ”Ž UNIDENTIFIED Gold cross with emeralds

oc plumber

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Jan 28, 2023
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Trying this in another forum hopefully is better suited here
Hi everyone ,first post here.
Trying to help out my father in law, he has a gold cross with emeralds in it he believes came from a Spanish shipwreck or possibly a sunk nazi u boat , I did some research and read about the atocha that Mel fisher discovered and the piece seems to very similar. It does not seem to have any id marks and comes with no paper work but my fil swears he has seen it before in a show talking about treasure linked to some sunken nazi uboat in Florida keys. Any ways was hoping somebody could shed some light/info or at least point us in the right direction. Thank you
 

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ARC

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The stones are dark for muzo emeralds.....they do show a wear pattern on the facet lines, as if it were worn by shifting sand. Not a trace of coral which dosent mean much really. Perhaps the lighting is a bit low, and makes the stones appear darker. Natural sunlight on muzo material makes it almost glow. The gold color looks brassy for 22k, but again the lighting is probably the culprit for this appearance. I once herd a story here it is.

Apparently there was once a certain diver who worked for mel....I know the first name but will hold it back....this diver made an incredible discovery one day in the 90s I believe. He found a cross like the one in discussions here. He quickly went pirate and put the piece under a rock and said nothing. Later he returned that night in an 18 foot boat, and recovered the cross. It was never known that this cross was pilfered by the diver, and I was told the diver never sold the cross for fear of being caught. Never herd what happened to that cross !! Im not saying that's the cross, just 2 cross discovery stories I've ever herd and that's one of them. The other was found by a recreational diver in the ft. Pierce inlet. Both were gold with emeralds. Who knows maybe this is the real deal.....if so it is valuable for sure.

Yes... lighting is everything with stones like these... backlit they will lighten up etc.
 
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ARC

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RTR... i am having a hard time finding a screwed in Laca (Spanish term/word for the top bow piece) like the one here.
I have seen screw in pieces in stuff in pictures long ago i am pretty sure... mostly Medieval era / period stuff... not in Spanish i admit... but seen it otherwise.
This is weird i also admit and no... definitely not the norm.. BUT makes it IMO more likely to be of period... but yet too could be the cherry on the ruse to fool as well.
Here is what i have seen type stuff... even though i cannot find an exact match...

0a09e873-2162-4e6a-9dfe-c6731e70c4e6.jpg

0019207-BYZANTINE-ART-c1000-AD-Byzantine-gold-enamel-reliquary-cross-with-the-Virgin-flanked-b...jpg

57781.jpg

57782.jpg

299180_496269_1000_1000_watermarked.jpg


Just a few... i can post a lot more examples.
 
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unclemac

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RTR... i am having a hard time finding a screwed in Laca (Spanish term/word for the top bow piece) like the one here.
I have seen screw in pieces in stuff in pictures long ago i am pretty sure... mostly Medieval era / period stuff... not in Spanish i admit... but seen it otherwise.
This is weird i also admit and no... definitely not the norm.. BUT makes it IMO more likely to be of period... but yet too could be the cherry on the ruse to fool as well.
add to that.... if made to deceive.... why choose such an obscure fitting?
 
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Blak bart

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I believe that research by anyone will reveal a diversity of craftsmanship amongst the jewelers and artist of antiquity!! Drift pins, screws, and all manor of techniques would be trade secrets of each artisan/craftsman !! One thing is for certain.....I've been dreaming of fanning some sand back and uncovering that type of "BISHOPS" cross since I was a kid and saw the movie "the deep" it's just too tricky to make a call on authenticity playing arm chair quarterback. This is the superbowl of treasure artifacts. You need real experts in person to determine as much as possible.

Perhaps the fine gentlemen at sedgwick auctions could help....they have had experience with similar artifacts, and have valued and sold pieces such as yours....they are experts in the field and have helped me in the past....I think the main man is Dan, or Don sedgwick. You might have to come to Florida for that meeting so bring your detector !! I can't think of anyone else who has more experience with things like this.....ill find a link and post it.....its up to you to reach out to them....they have been friendly and helpful in the past for me !
 
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Blak bart

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Blak bart

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If you use the auction archives you may find a similar piece that's been sold .... maybe ? You will definitely see some incredible treasure !!
 
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Blak bart

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Ya....your gonna want to talk to Dan sedwick.....thats a screen shot of a cross from 2009 auction....there should be even more examples in there vast files !!
 
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Blak bart

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Ok....so it wasn't a cross.....it was a golden dragon !! Made a huge impression on me at a young age. I always envisioned my self with a cross like the OPs in my hand !! Just like the very end here !!
 
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oc plumber

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A good xrf costs around 16k. heh... so... um... might wanna just go somewhere that has one already.
I told you where to go and what to
I found a company about 1hr or 2 away that does xrf but he said he has a hand held one & that going over the emeralds and gold at same time might be hard to read , said with paper work it would be $350 without and just screen shot $175 that the right place?
 
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ARC

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I found a company about 1hr or 2 away that does xrf but he said he has a hand held one & that going over the emeralds and gold at same time might be hard to read , said with paper work it would be $350 without and just screen shot $175 that the right place?
Sheesh... holy crapola.

That's too bad... I suggest you call around more.
Look at only major coin broker or bullion dealer.
 
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oc plumber

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Blak bart

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Well...I gave it my best shot.....might have to take it to someone in person. Sorry I couldn't help with my sedwick suggestion.
 
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ARC

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I knew that was gonna happen... i was going to say something... but I let it go. heh

My thought was... hey whats it going to hurt... ya just never know sometimes.
 
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ARC

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Hey plumber... whilst your around... any way you could post rough size and possibly a weight ?
 
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