ID Please - Silver Buckle?
- Thread starter iAmMike
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Almy
Sr. Member
I agree with your ID.
JeffInMass
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Beautiful find- Congrats!
CoinFetcher
Bronze Member
It looks like silver. I see the sterling stamp too!
Silvermonkey
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Yup...I'm guessing a suspender strap....but a damn fancy one. Nice find!
Red-Coat
Silver Member
I don't know exactly what this came off, but with some enhancement I can see the maker mark for I.N. Deitsch, active in New York from 1904-c.1920. Not to be confused with the Deitsch Brothers (Charles & Edward) who also produced silver and leather combination items in New York around the same time. Here's your mark alongside the mark used by I.N, Deitsch for comparison:
E-Trac-Ohio
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Nice one !
Jose The Goon
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Very nice & interesting find "Mike". Congrats on the silver, whatever it is.
I'm going to put a different spin on this. They went to the bother of stamping sterling on it along with the numbers 2 & 27 & a maker's mark or hallmark, but the item is not symmetrical. It appears to be oddly shaped. I'm wondering if it's a part from another Item like a gun or maybe a coffee or teapot (silver serving set pieces) etc.
I'm going to put a different spin on this. They went to the bother of stamping sterling on it along with the numbers 2 & 27 & a maker's mark or hallmark, but the item is not symmetrical. It appears to be oddly shaped. I'm wondering if it's a part from another Item like a gun or maybe a coffee or teapot (silver serving set pieces) etc.
Jose The Goon
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From Red-Coat's post:
"......who also produced "silver and leather combination items" in New York around the same time."
This is very helpful info. Could be from some other item other than suspenders. (purse, pouch, belt etc.)
"......who also produced "silver and leather combination items" in New York around the same time."
This is very helpful info. Could be from some other item other than suspenders. (purse, pouch, belt etc.)
Red-Coat
Silver Member
Just to clarify, I.N. Deitsch was a separate company from the Deitsch Brothers (Charles & Edward). It's not a common surname and both companies were operating in New York NY around the same time, so it's entirely possible there was some connection between them of a family nature and a consequent business relationship.
I.N. Deitsch is poorly documented and I don't know what they made as a full range, but silver picture frames (including folding portable ones) are the most frequent items found with their "IND" mark. The Deitsch Brothers company used a different mark and is much better documented. They specialised in leather goods with silver and gold fitments, for which they produced a huge range. Here's one of their ads, but I stress again that this was a separate company to I.N. Deitsch:
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Jose The Goon
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Red-Coat,
My mind wanders............ I wonder if I.N. Deitsch was an estranged brother (or cousin) who didn't get along with Charles & Edward & went out on his own but wasn't as successful. It seems very coincidental with the same name, city & time period. There might be some sort of relationship or connection.
Some more info on the Deitsch Brothers:
From this link: https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/SILNMAHTL_14145
"OVERSIZE. Sterling silver-mounted leather goods and ebony goods: card cases and pocket books ; memorandum books ; cigar and cigarette cases ; coin purses ; eye glass cases ; umbrella straps ; portfolio ; desk pads ; chatelaine bags ; photo and calendar frames ; monograms ; hair brushes and mirrors ; clothes brushes ; trays ; medals and badges ; Early 20th c."
" Topic (Romaine term) Artists; drafting; crafts materials and supplies Brass; bronze and specialty metals Clothing (including hats; shoes; accessories; etc) Cosmetics Curios; novelties and souvenirs Furniture and furnishings Leather products; tanning and equestrian supplies Metalwork products (architectural and ornamental) Office equipment and supplies Smoking and tobacco accessories"
My mind wanders............ I wonder if I.N. Deitsch was an estranged brother (or cousin) who didn't get along with Charles & Edward & went out on his own but wasn't as successful. It seems very coincidental with the same name, city & time period. There might be some sort of relationship or connection.
Some more info on the Deitsch Brothers:
From this link: https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/search/object/SILNMAHTL_14145
"OVERSIZE. Sterling silver-mounted leather goods and ebony goods: card cases and pocket books ; memorandum books ; cigar and cigarette cases ; coin purses ; eye glass cases ; umbrella straps ; portfolio ; desk pads ; chatelaine bags ; photo and calendar frames ; monograms ; hair brushes and mirrors ; clothes brushes ; trays ; medals and badges ; Early 20th c."
" Topic (Romaine term) Artists; drafting; crafts materials and supplies Brass; bronze and specialty metals Clothing (including hats; shoes; accessories; etc) Cosmetics Curios; novelties and souvenirs Furniture and furnishings Leather products; tanning and equestrian supplies Metalwork products (architectural and ornamental) Office equipment and supplies Smoking and tobacco accessories"
jewelerguy
Gold Member
nice
Red-Coat
Silver Member
Just a few more barrel-scrapings from the little that is documented about I.N. Deitsch.
The man in question was Isaac Newton Deitsch and he seems to have been the middle brother between Charles Deitsch and Edward Joseph Deitsch who founded Deitsch Brothers, but he had his own company.
It was reported in February 1905 that I. N. Deitsch incorporated in New York to sell jewel cases and picture frames. Their mark has also been seen on silver clock surrounds. The company was reported as having capital of $30,000, with I.N. Deitsch, N.S. Brussel and E.W. Beebe as directors.
On 21st August 1913 it was reported that a bankruptcy petition was filed against the company at 16-20 West Thirty Second Street. Assets of $7,000 but liabilities of $35,000 at the time. They were nevertheless still listed in the Jewelers’ Circular 1904-1915 as manufacturers of sterling silverware.
The company seems to have survived in some form for a few more years. On 31st January 1918 it was reported that I.N Deitsch had an association with the R. E. Leyendecker Company, Inc., who sold a novelty line of decorated wood picture frames, onyx specialties, silver deposit ware, dresser sets, etc. from showroom premises at the southeast corner of Fifth Avenue and Thirty-fourth Street. Possibly Deitsch made silver fitments for Leyendecker’s wares and probably other companies too, although there is no documented reference for him supplying to his brothers’ company.
There are no records after c. 1920, Isaac Newton Deitsch having died sometime in 1919.
The man in question was Isaac Newton Deitsch and he seems to have been the middle brother between Charles Deitsch and Edward Joseph Deitsch who founded Deitsch Brothers, but he had his own company.
It was reported in February 1905 that I. N. Deitsch incorporated in New York to sell jewel cases and picture frames. Their mark has also been seen on silver clock surrounds. The company was reported as having capital of $30,000, with I.N. Deitsch, N.S. Brussel and E.W. Beebe as directors.
On 21st August 1913 it was reported that a bankruptcy petition was filed against the company at 16-20 West Thirty Second Street. Assets of $7,000 but liabilities of $35,000 at the time. They were nevertheless still listed in the Jewelers’ Circular 1904-1915 as manufacturers of sterling silverware.
The company seems to have survived in some form for a few more years. On 31st January 1918 it was reported that I.N Deitsch had an association with the R. E. Leyendecker Company, Inc., who sold a novelty line of decorated wood picture frames, onyx specialties, silver deposit ware, dresser sets, etc. from showroom premises at the southeast corner of Fifth Avenue and Thirty-fourth Street. Possibly Deitsch made silver fitments for Leyendecker’s wares and probably other companies too, although there is no documented reference for him supplying to his brothers’ company.
There are no records after c. 1920, Isaac Newton Deitsch having died sometime in 1919.
Jose The Goon
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Great work Red-Coat !!! It looks like you zeroed in on it.
Thanks for always sharing your wealth of knowledge, research & expertise with us all.
" It was reported in February 1905 that I. N. Deitsch incorporated in New York to sell JEWEL CASES and PICTURE FRAMES. Their mark has also been seen on SILVER CLOCK SURROUNDS."
" I.N Deitsch had an association with the R. E. Leyendecker Company, Inc., who sold a novelty line of DECORATED WOOD PICTURE FRAMES, ONYX SPECIALTIES, SILVER DEPOSIT WARE, DRESSER SETS, etc. "
Thanks for always sharing your wealth of knowledge, research & expertise with us all.
" It was reported in February 1905 that I. N. Deitsch incorporated in New York to sell JEWEL CASES and PICTURE FRAMES. Their mark has also been seen on SILVER CLOCK SURROUNDS."
" I.N Deitsch had an association with the R. E. Leyendecker Company, Inc., who sold a novelty line of DECORATED WOOD PICTURE FRAMES, ONYX SPECIALTIES, SILVER DEPOSIT WARE, DRESSER SETS, etc. "
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