Incised Pebble

jamus peek

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This is a recent find. I believe it's an Incised Pebble. It's a little bigger then a quarter and is flattened. Both sides display crosshatching but the incisions are not that deep and very water worn.
IMG_20200529_134254.jpg IMG_20200529_134310.jpg IMG_20200529_134358.jpg IMG_20200529_134316.jpg IMG_20200529_134550.jpg
 
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Charl

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Jamus, can you take some additional photos of what could be considered the working face if that stone last pictured was used as a hammer stone? (Post #32) I’m not a knapper so I don’t know if soap stone would make a suitable hammer stone when knapping. But there should be some evidence of wear if it was used for a long period of time.

Of course I’ll let Jamus answer your query, but I need to point out that the stone you are referring to is not a sinew stone. I did not have that incised stone in mind when I spoke of sinew stones and how to interpret their usage as part of a knapping kit. The stone Jamus shows in comment #32 seemed like a non utilitarian California incised stone to me, but maybe not. Perhaps it was utilitarian in some way, but it is not a sinew stone, IMHO.

In any event, here are some sinew stones, found by a friend at a RI site....Quartzite in both cases. I do believe soapstone would be a very poor choice for a hammerstone.

6E462764-C446-481B-8FFF-DA54A8469FD2.jpeg

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IMAUDIGGER

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Charl, I clearly see the difference.

Another possibility for that last rock Jamus posted (#32).

Locally (in California)....Steatite (soapstone) was used in ceremonial rituals involving the weather (rain rocks).
Cupules were pounded and the resulting Steatite powder was used as medicine to make it rain (trigger salmon runs). In California, tribes living near creeks and rivers heavily relied on salmon runs to survive.

Linear gouges were used to generate powder that would be used to make it snow...a perpendicular line would make it stop snowing.

I can only imagine that striking a sharpened flint across the stone would generate a small amount of Steatite powder, maybe to be used as medicine? Mystery for sure.
 
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jamus peek

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Charl, I clearly see the difference.

Another possibility for that last rock Jamus posted (#32).

Locally (in California)....Steatite (soapstone) was used in ceremonial rituals involving the weather (rain rocks).
Cupules were pounded and the resulting Steatite powder was used as medicine to make it rain (trigger salmon runs). In California, tribes living near creeks and rivers heavily relied on salmon runs to survive.

Linear gouges were used to generate powder that would be used to make it snow...a perpendicular line would make it stop snowing.

I can only imagine that striking a sharpened flint across the stone would generate a small amount of Steatite powder, maybe to be used as medicine? Mystery for sure.

There was a lot of diversity between tribes living in the Bay Area. I have read that each tribes land was roughly 10 square miles. Some more some less. Each tribe had there own language but they still could communicate with each other. The reason I bring this up is because each tribe had different needs different superstitions. Parts of California have droughts and a lot of creeks are non perennial creeks some completely dry for several months of the year. So I imagine at times that water was the most important commodity.

I believe the item in post#32 is a Charmstone. Some may disagree because of the Incised markings as most Charmstones were not Incised. The shape however is not natural nor is the material for the area. The Artifact was pecked into shape and the shape resembles the common Plummet style Charmstone that the Bay area is known for. So why take the time to shape an exotic stone and incise it if it was of utilitarian use.

Also I want to point out where I found this one was in a non perrinial creek which had very large salmon runs. Water brings the Salmon and the many other fish such as Sturgeon, Striped Bass, lamprey eel etc.
Although they had drinking water throughout the year the importance of water and charmstones was related to the food source that came with the rains.

Nobody really knows. Modern Native Americans know a lot about their ancestors and do not like to reveal information it's their secret. If you make a wish you can't tell anybody right! Of course information has been revealed though.

So based on a tribes needs more then likely was a Charmstones purpose. Also the Bay Area is known for phallic Charmstones these were probably fertility related.
 
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jamus peek

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Here's a neat little one that I really like found close by. Each facet of this stone was an opportunity to make a different decoration. Note the 2 sides are incised.Both sides a different style. One being a cross hatch pattern in a grid the other being a bisecting branching style incisions. One face the cortex is ground away in some areas and nicely polished on the other face there is a groove that runs across the top. Other then the groove this face does not look worked other then being polished. Possibly the stone was completely worked around this face. Also this is an exotic material for the area as it is Basalt and we don't have volcanic materials in the area.

IMG_20200530_140758.jpg

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jamus peek

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Thank you very much for everybodies insight. I feel I gathered a lot of information to help me be more objective in the future when it comes to Incised stones.
 
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jamus peek

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Could the dotted line be some kind of fossil? I know here in Ohio we occasionally find fossils sorta like that but I don't know. Good luck getting an ID. Interesting rocks if nothing else.

p.s. I don't know anything about artifacts so I am not saying it isn't one, I am just saying that it could be a fossil

I have studied invertebrate fossils im far from an expert but I have never seen invertebrate fossils through any time frame that resemble these cupule's.

Also the example Charl posted on the side with the prominent slashes one of the incisions is a line completely made up of dots. It's very obvious. Also on the link that Charl posted may have some examples of dotted line incisions.

I'll post some charts of Incised stones that are compromised of dots that form lines.
 
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IMAUDIGGER

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Incredibly intensive to make lines by making holes..doesn't seem ever plausible.
 
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jamus peek

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I have studied invertebrate fossils im far from an expert but I have never seen invertebrate fossils through any time frame that resemble these cupule's.

Also the example Charl posted on the side with the prominent slashes one of the incisions is a line completely made up of dots. It's very obvious. Also on the link that Charl posted may have some examples of dotted line incisions.

I'll post some charts of Incised stones that are compromised of dots that form lines.

Charl posted a good link. It's not very long and has illustrations of Incised stones with cupule's. Look at fig number 4. I have found one very silimar. Same shape full of only dotted line incisions. If the one I found was shaped purposely to match the one on Fig 4 that would mean possibly these stones were shaped and Incised with purposeful meaning.
 

Backwoodsbob

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I think you have some nice pieces. As for others who can't make sense of them. You just need to investigate. The answers are out there. The stones are used for a purpose. They give the user information to a location. Most of these stones will have certain shape. They will coordinate with other stones in the area of interest. They knew to look for a similar shaped stone. Most of the stones start out larger. The smaller ones would have the best information on them. The color is another part of it.
They would only be good those who knew what to look for. If you want information to last put it in stone. It's really that simple. The people who made them were very educated in the art of concealment. You can read about some of this in the signs and symbol threads. They are used in vault treasure hunting. This is not a Spanish system. They only used it. If you know what to look for you can find this all over the world.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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I think you have some nice pieces. As for others who can't make sense of them. You just need to investigate. The answers are out there. The stones are used for a purpose. They give the user information to a location. Most of these stones will have certain shape. They will coordinate with other stones in the area of interest. They knew to look for a similar shaped stone. Most of the stones start out larger. The smaller ones would have the best information on them. The color is another part of it.
They would only be good those who knew what to look for. If you want information to last put it in stone. It's really that simple. The people who made them were very educated in the art of concealment. You can read about some of this in the signs and symbol threads. They are used in vault treasure hunting. This is not a Spanish system. They only used it. If you know what to look for you can find this all over the world.

Are you saying there could be a cache of pinion nuts or acorn meal buried nearby?
I can't read the signs, so just throwing a guess out there.
 
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jamus peek

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Are you saying there could be a cache of pinion nuts or acorn meal buried nearby?
I can't read the signs, so just throwing a guess out there.

I have seen some nice treasures Bob has found and I was impressed and they were not nuts.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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I have seen some nice treasures Bob has found and I was impressed and they were not nuts.

No doubt.

I'm just trying to figure out the most valuable possession the native Americans in California had..it was food stores as far as I know. Maybe a leather satchel of pileated woodpecker scalps? IDK.

Maybe someone can shed some additional light on what treasure vaults the California tribes were known to hide and what was in them.
 
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jamus peek

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No doubt.

I'm just trying to figure out the most valuable possession the native Americans in California had..it was food stores as far as I know. Maybe a leather satchel of pileated woodpecker scalps? IDK.

Maybe someone can shed some additional light on what treasure vaults the California tribes were known to hide and what was in them.

I read that Indians mined gems but no talk of gold. I find that interesting.

I got one for ya. I was thinking long and hard last night about the cupule's on the stones the best natural phenomenon that I could think of that made those dots on the rocks was a mentally challenged woodpecker trying to get a grub out of a rock.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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I read that Indians mined gems but no talk of gold. I find that interesting.

I got one for ya. I was thinking long and hard last night about the cupule's on the stones the best natural phenomenon that I could think of that made those dots on the rocks was a mentally challenged woodpecker trying to get a grub out of a rock.

Could be trapped gas bubbles. A geologist would likely be able to answer your question.
 
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jamus peek

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Could be trapped gas bubbles. A geologist would likely be able to answer your question.

You know I was joking lol. That's interesting about the wood pecker scalps though. I never read about that.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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The one thing I've learned recently is that Indian tribes were not at all similar in their social order and customs..even if you limit it to California. Vastly different. Some similarities but very different.
 

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