IRONIC?

[Fullpan]

A pic of part of a stamp mill at the Yellow Metal Mine in the high country of Nevada co, Ca. Notice it was made at the Miner's Foundry
in Nev. City. This building still stands, and serves as meeting place for all the environmental groups who hate miners and mining, while
fundraising to "save the sierra". Pretty ironic, don't you think?

another subject: - if you browse through the rest of the photos, you can see the "sulphide" nature of the ore. In 1865 there was a
major rush to this area, but they ran into "refactory ore", which meant they couldn't just crush out gold so the district went belly up
in a few years (nowadays they use heap leaching with cyanide to process). I wonder how much natural oxidation has taken place over
a 140 years? That is, could you recover some gold off the dump by just scraping the rust off?

last - just found this site yesterday. It has lots of research potential, guys.

http://www.westernmininghistory.com/mine-image/35121/36879/

 

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[Oakview2]

Good lookin ore. Thanks for the pics.

 

[Fullpan]

Babbling on about the enviro thing, as it makes my blood boil every frickin' day. There is a new campaign to advertise "Geotourism" in the motherlode (funded
of course by taxpayers). Geotourism advertises the mining history, especially the buildings, mining equipment, way of life (think parades with period costumes), etc. Its very wrong, I think, to venerate the mining history, while at the same time standing on the necks of modern small scale miners - rant over!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

did you grow up in a mining town where the smelter still poured out unfiltered pollutants?
pinal smelter - Bing Images
http://www.us-mining.com/arizona/pinal-county
no? that is ironic.

 

[Fullpan]

did you grow up in a mining town where the smelter still poured out unfiltered pollutants?
pinal smelter - Bing Images
Pinal County, AZ mining, mines, mine owners and mine statistics
no? that is ironic.

Sc - you act like you're getting heat stroke there in AZ. Can't seem to tell the difference between small scale modern river mining and the sins of past LARGE
scale ops.

 

[Goldwasher]

did you grow up in a mining town where the smelter still poured out unfiltered pollutants?
pinal smelter - Bing Images
Pinal County, AZ mining, mines, mine owners and mine statistics
no? that is ironic.

Here we go again..... is it Ok that the Mining Industry has been outsourced to other poorer countries that have less regulations....because those lesser third world people should have to deal with it while they labor to pull from the Earth your cell phone, Metal detector, Car, T.v. dvd player, computer, tin cans, steel for building materials, and all the other raw materials that go into the finished products you and millions of others use?Or should this country be cutting edge and create the Industry standard of smart materials production and reclamation? When you stifle something completely you just prevent its smart safe growth...we are very concious of past mistakes And for the most part the production mistakes made are very expensive compared to the modern production standards. Its actually better economically to run clean. It is the regulations and their.. in the thin air value that prevents ethical Mining in our country. Sending it else where allowing for companies to be unethical elsewhere. Just by practice and origin do you think an American or a Chinese company is running their operation in say Equador....Cleaner and more "Earth Friendly".....or say we let other countries come here and pay to play....will they be as "clean" as a domestic outfit?....Think more less talking

 

[Goldwasher]

I would but, then I can't refute for the sake of others..

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

wow...impressive...magma is still in operation...not a closed mine...
name calling is the last refuge of ignorance...
ignorance is bliss...

Whenever you find that you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.

Mark Twain (1835 - 1910

 

[Tnmountains]

Stop the name calling or the thread will be closed.

 

[Goldwasher]

S canyon you should read and reflect on your own posts and realize you are calling yourself out..............calling us stupid or $hit 4 brainsand then quoting S. Clemens..realize that people who support mining are the minority because it is held in a negative light ..by most" OMG look at the hole in the ground" .....or that unsightly factory.....answer the question enlightened one, where will our civilization get its raw materials?where will we get all the neeeded precious metals that are used in all the high tech devices used by you and your fellow manor do you live off grid and are at the public library using their computer just wonderin since you are such the obvious rightous citizen we should all emulate........can't wait for more of your insight on how we can be a better stewards of our environment as we have no intention or knowledge of doing so.

 

[Fullpan]

If you believe what you are saying, Sc - show the courage of your convictions, come on out to Nev. City, Ca. They (the environmentalist non-profits) will
welcome you with open arms. You will find dozens of organizations willing to put an educated guy to work with tax money. There are openings for AmeriCorps
jobs, openings for River Scientists, lab technicians (water quality testing), River Monitors (checking on instruments that register TSS, TMDLs, toxic metal levels). You can be a River Ambassador, who raises awareness about environmental stewardship (telling ignorant river users to pick up their beer cans). If
that's too mundane for you, you can be a V.I.P. handler/facilitator who smoozes with politicians, gov't agency heads at numerous fundraising gala events (hope
you like expensive wine). Or you can work in the offices, cranking out constant, endless news releases concerning "the new, true way of living in harmony with
the oh so delicate balance of nature". The re-invention of proper management of the Sierra Nevada forests, watersheds, and regional landscapes is just getting a full head of steam. There are scores of grants projects begging for sharp administrators to help spend the money flowing in. Or you can spend your expertise creating new urgent projects to save the sierra from people like us, who want to continue to actually use resources, people like woodcutters, small scale miners, snowmobilers, ranchers, farmers, wilderness outfitters etc. So, get over here and accomplish something. The Sierra Fund, the Sierra Nevada Conservancy, the South Yuba River Citizens
League (SYRCL), the Sierra Streams Institute, Yuba Net, the Consumnes American Bear Yuba (CABY), American River keepers, the Sierra Nevada Alliance, and a dozen other non-profits within 50 miles of Nev. City are waiting to hear your views. And we, being in the minority - a david and Goliath situation, are not.

 

[Goldwasher]

Hey Fullpan watch what you say we're not supposed to know what we're talking about.....with our lack of education and for brains....it almost sounds like you put a lot of thought into your responsibilities as a miner...thats just not supposed to be the case your making the rest of us look good....and we just can't have that

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

been to calif...nothing there for me...
and I am done with teaching thank you...too many people come to class professing greater knowledge then the staff, and call the instructors names...
hey...just like here huh?

 

[Aufisher]

.....and the sky is gray......

 

[Mad Machinist]

Everyone,

You can't argue with people like SC. Something in their heads is broken and they have a complete disconnect with reality.

Let me show all of you why I have a rather serious and intense dislike of people like SC.

Whether anyone realizes it or not, the eco groups are an extension of corporate America. Why else would someone like the Rockerfellers contribute to and elevate an eco group after they made their millions in big oil and big timber. Give me a little bit to find the info again and I will show you all where the money the eco groups are getting is coming from.

Take a look at the laws passed. The little guy doesn't have a snowball's chance of making it big with all the permits and environmental regs in place. But to the big boys, those regs are just a formality that only needs a few million here and there to grease the skids.

We have seen the largest transfer of wealth in the past few decades from the middle class to the rich. Why? If you can control a thing, then you can set the price. Just look at what DeBeers has done with the diamond market. Or how about the price of a barrel of oil? Anybody notice the price of decent lumber anymore?

In a lot of ways I really feel sorry for people like SC. They are getting used and don't even realize it. On the plus side, we have entered the end game for the eco's. They have gotten to big for their britches and have bitten the hand that was feeding them.

If they really want to go down the path of saying a small scale guy like me is just as careless and destructive as some of the big boys, then they need to put on their big boys pants and be ready for a backlash that they'll never forget.
http://www.lancasterfarming.com/results/Judge-Sides-With-Farmer--Perdue-in-Pollution-Lawsuit-

This is just one of the articles I have read on this. In another, this eco group said they would back off if the farmer paid them $2 million dollars and gave the eco group control of the farm for 7 years. Sounds like extortion to me. Since they want to lump all of us into one group, should we return the favor and lump all of them in with this group as extortionists? No offense intended, just a simple question.

 

[Fullpan]

MM - the link didn't work for me.

 

[Mad Machinist]

[h=3]Judge Sides With Farmer, Perdue in Pollution Lawsuit[/h]





12/29/2012 7:00 AM
By From Staff and Wire Reports



WASHINGTON — A New York-based environmental group failed to prove that a Maryland farmer who raises chickens for poultry giant Perdue Farms had polluted a nearby river, a federal judge ruled last week in a case that has been closely watched by environmentalists and the poultry industry.
U.S. District Judge William Nickerson sided with farmer Alan Hudson in the 50-page ruling and chided the environmental group for pursuing the case without sufficient evidence.
The organization, Waterkeeper Alliance, alleged that chicken litter from the Hudson Farm in Berlin was discharged into a river that ultimately flows into the Chesapeake Bay, and that Perdue, which owns the chickens and monitors their growth, should be responsible for the pollution.
Nickerson said that while he agreed the bay was a vital resource of the state, and that citizens should feel empowered to protect the waterway in instances when regulators won’t or can’t, legal challenges must be brought “responsibly and effectively.”
“The court finds that in this action, for whatever reason, Waterkeeper did not meet that obligation,” Nickerson wrote.
He chastised the group for bringing the lawsuit without doing adequate sampling to identify the source of the pollution, saying that given the amount of time and resources spent on the court case, it was indefensible that Waterkeeper “would not have conducted the straightforward testing and sampling that could have established a discharge from the poultry operation, if there was such a discharge.”
Waterkeeper said in a statement that it disagreed with the judge’s decision and would consider an appeal. Perdue called the ruling a “good day for Maryland and for agriculture.”
“We congratulate the Hudsons on their long-overdue exoneration. We are also pleased that the judge upheld existing law that safeguards the contractor relationship and confirms the independence of thousands of family farms who choose to raise poultry and livestock,” spokeswoman Julie DeYoung said in a statement.
Waterkeeper alleged during a nonjury trial that chicken litter was being discharged from the farm into a tributary of the Pocomoke River, spread either by ventilation fans in the chicken houses or the shoes of people who come in and out of the houses.
The federal suit was filed in 2010 after representatives from Waterkeeper flew over the farm and identified what they initially believed to be a large uncovered pile of chicken manure. The piles were eventually found not to be chicken manure.
Lawyers for Perdue and the Hudson family said the chicken manure wasn’t getting out in great enough amounts to pollute, and Hudson testified that he took steps to avoid pollution and to keep the manure in the houses.
In a statement praising the ruling, Maryland Secretary of Agriculture Buddy Hance said the state has worked diligently to make sure its agricultural operations are managed in a way that protects water quality.
“Poultry is the largest agricultural sector in Maryland, and it is critically important to Maryland’s economic health. The Chesapeake Bay is one of our greatest national treasures and its restoration is critical to our state’s environmental health,” Hance said. “Judge Nickerson’s ruling ... goes a long way toward ensuring that both our agricultural heritage and our effort to restore the bay can move forward cooperatively and in harmony, rather than through damaging litigation.”
Nickerson also stated in his ruling that even if the court had determined there was proof of a Clean Water Act violation on the Hudson farm, there was insufficient evidence to impose liability on Perdue.
Nickerson made note of the company’s environmental stewardship program, in which Perdue personnel receive training from the EPA on environmental compliance and best management practices and then educate growers on those issues.
“In this instance, the evidence at trial would suggest that Perdue should be commended, not condemned,” the ruling stated. “Perdue appears to have tried to take the lead in addressing some of the very issues about which Plaintiff is concerned.”

 

[Fullpan]

Thanks for printing it out. Yes, the greenies method of propaganda BS with no evidence, does backfire when someone with enough money calls their bluff.
Their successes come when little guys have no resources to fight back.

 

[2cmorau]

the majority of Californians are the SC types, unfortunately, and all the rules and regs being place by the unscrupulous sc types will in the end bite them on there backside, but there is hope for some. a recent posting on facebook. think i will grab a sandwich and go lay on the couch, LOL

mountain yellow-legged frogs occur in high elevation lakes and ponds, not rivers. Introduced fish are the major culprits for this species. I didn't see where the article was blaming miners, but maybe I missed something.Thursday at 5:36pm · Like · 1


Frank Matyus Ellen, you need to be a dredger/miner/small town in the mountain bis owner to know what the frog has done to many miners, and it's all BS, just like the Spotted Owl
Yesterday at 5:14am · Like · 1








Ellen Berryman The mountain yellow-legged frog? Please tell me more.
Yesterday at 5:16am · Like








Frank Matyus if you would like to know more visit my my page, but in short they are using the frog and toad to close down the sierras or at the very least restrict human access or more like ban Grazing, dams, water diversions, logging, fire management, mining, travel, sport fishing, hiking, camping, rafting, all them there benign activties
Yesterday at 5:58am · Like








Ellen Berryman Just looked at your page but not seeing the specifics about activities that have been shut down. What you're saying sounds very extreme and unprecedented in terms of the effects of listing a species.
Yesterday at 6:04am · Like








Frank Matyus Well to start there is California's SB670,and AB120, both are a violation fed law
Yesterday at 6:18am · Like · 1








Frank Matyus if you would trake the time to research something and not listen or read the large part of the media like HCN and also scroll down my page you would be better informed
Yesterday at 6:22am · Like








Ellen Berryman SB670 requiring that issuance of permits for suction and dredge comply with CEQA?
Yesterday at 6:24am · Like








Ellen Berryman Just asking questions - scrolling down your page to try and pick out the relevant information seems like an inefficient way of being informed. I'll do my own research.
Yesterday at 6:27am · Like








Frank Matyus so then why did Sierra Fund use a dredge in 2010 when SB670 was inforced in 2009?
Yesterday at 6:27am · Like








Ellen Berryman Don't know how SB670 would stop dredging - it's my understanding that it just has to comply with CEQA like most California projects do.
Yesterday at 6:28am · Like








Ellen Berryman It would be interesting to see if potential effects on mountain yellow legged frog due to dredging activity cause a project to be stopped via SB670 compliance.
Yesterday at 6:30am · Like








Frank Matyus Importantly, suction dredging is currently prohibited by statute throughout California as it has been since August 2009
Yesterday at 6:37am · Like








Ellen Berryman Oh I see. It looks like there's a moratorium until CDFW completes a CEQA review of its permitting program. So I guess CDFW needs to look at program-wide effects on mountain yellow legged frog and other rare and listed species before they can start issuing permits again. I can see why that would upset miners.
Yesterday at 6:43am · Like · 1








Frank Matyus State law and Federal law are two differant beast's, but more importantly Dredging has demostrated it's abilty to clean are water of toxins, and CEQA ignored the offset of selenium
Yesterday at 6:44am · Like








Ellen Berryman oh did they already prepare an EIR?
Yesterday at 6:45am · Like








Ellen Berryman Is it in the draft EIR stage?
Yesterday at 6:45am · Like








Frank Matyus long time ago and many study's later
Yesterday at 6:46am · Like








Ellen Berryman I'd like to see the EIR. Do you happen to have a link?
Yesterday at 6:47am · Like








Frank Matyus LMFAO, Suction Dredge Permitting Program - California Department of Fish and Wildlife Suction Dredge Permitting Program - California Department of Fish and Wildlife
www.dfg.ca.govOn June 28, 2013, the Office of Administrative Law (OAL) approved an emergency r...egulation proposed by the California Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) that changes the definition of "suction dredging" and the "use of any vacuum or suction dredge equipment" for purposes of Fish and Game Code sec...See More







Yesterday at 6:49am · Like · Remove Preview








Ellen Berryman haha I just found that site
Yesterday at 6:49am · Like








Frank Matyus LOL, have fun, it's boring
Yesterday at 6:50am · Like








Frank Matyus but don't stop there, look up Combie Reservoir Project which was a failed idea and was done in my opinion illegaly and at Tax payer expense, where the miners did the same before they were outlawed for free, had to pay the State a fee for a permit
Yesterday at 6:55am · Like








Ellen Berryman hmm, yeah, you're right, they found significant and unavoidable effects related to water quality. But no significant effects to amphibians, except cumulative significant impacts to wildlife in general. Shouldn't the moratorium be lifted soon since CDFW is through the CEQA process?
Yesterday at 6:59am · Like








Frank Matyus you would think, hence the ab120 and sb1018 just more BS
Yesterday at 7:03am · Like · 1








Ellen Berryman Thanks, this has been educational. gotta go. I'll look into it more later.
Yesterday at 7:03am · Like








Frank Matyus yup me too have to head into twon myself
Yesterday at 7:04am · Like · 1








Frank Matyus oops town
Yesterday at 7:05am · Like








Chuck Dunn https://www.facebook.com/WesternMiningAlliance?ref=ts&fref=ts there are facts there. WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD COMPLIANCE RULES..Western Mining Alliance
Western Mining Alliance is dedicated to offering education and constructive dial...ogue to present differing viewpoints, using logic, reason and scientific evidence to constructively discuss these important issues in a public forum. We need to ensure independent miners can effectively work their minera...See More
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21 hours ago · Like








Chuck Dunn THESE OUR THE PEOPLE THAT CAUSED THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM CLAIMING THEY WERE SAVING THE SALMON..THE DEA SHOULD DO THEIR JOB UP THERE TO LIMIT ALL THE DRUGS IN THAT AREA.
I DREDGE AND RUN A VERY CLEAN OPERATION..HUMBOLDT CO.
I VE BEEN TOLD HAS A SIGNIFICAN...See More
21 hours ago · Unlike · 1








Chuck Dunn CHECK THIS OUT..4 MORE INFO. https://www.facebook.com/WesternMiningAlliance?ref=ts&fref=tsWestern Mining Alliance
Western Mining Alliance is dedicated to offering education and constructive dial...ogue to present differing viewpoints, using logic, reason and scientific evidence to constructively discuss these important issues in a public forum. We need to ensure independent miners can effectively work their minera...See More
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21 hours ago · Like

 

[sparkydog]

Mmmmmmmm, spotted owl tastes like chicken, great with an oyster dressing and glazed sweet potatoes.