Like stars in the night sky

[Matthew Roberts]

Somewhere lost in all the dutchman books is the story of an Army captain named Foresyth who walks in a store at either Pinal or Fort McDowell and in a glass case sees a specimen of gold in a dark black rock. Forsyth can't believe the specimens are real but the store owner assures him it is certainly real and was brought in by an Indian from somewhere out in the mountains. The Indian said it came from a mine where the gold looked like stars in the night sky.

Does anybody know where this story can be found? It seems I read it once in the Bark notes or Ely's book possibly?

I have always been interested in this story and it's origins because many years back I was involved with a partner who had gold in this black rock and he showed me where it came from and I was able to find more at the same location.

Has anyone else ever seen ore like this in the mountains or know of samples taken by others?

The photos and the ore are mine. If you look closely you will also see a green copper stain of malachite in the ore. It is the strangest and most unexplainable gold I have ever seen or been involved with.

 

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[coazon de oro]

Howdy Mr. Roberts,

I like the Indian's description, the only other similar ore that I have seen pictures of was shown by Silent Hunter in another treasure hunting site. It's on page 17 on a thread of his many discoveries, and he was also asking if anyone else had ever seen similar ore. His sample looks much like yours, but has red streaks on it.

Homar

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I can't really tell by the pics Matthew, but it looks like chalcopyrite to me. Which can contain alot of gold, especially in AZ.

I do have a sample sort of like yours from the Supes, and similar samples taken from the same mine, when processed, did contain good gold values...but it was mostly pyrite and copper.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I can't really tell by the pics Matthew, but it looks like chalcopyrite to me. Which can contain alot of gold, especially in AZ.

I do have a sample sort of like yours from the Supes, and similar samples taken from the same mine, when processed, did contain good gold values...but it was mostly pyrite and copper.

View attachment 1910533

Thanks Jim. Your sample looks similar to the ore I have. The best samples I had were loaned to the Arizona Dept. of mines and minerals when their collection was housed at the state fairgrounds. Later they moved that collection to the Shrine building on Washington street near the capital. The chief geologists at the mines and mineral department, Mason Coggins and Nyle Nymath analized the samples and confirmed it is gold you see in the pictures and may have been a redeposit of the original gold episode.

About 5 years ago the State mines and mineral museum suddenly closed and since then I've learned all the gold samples they had are missing. I'd sure like to have the samples I loaned them back.

Do you know where to find the story of the army captain and the Indian who brought the stars in the night sky gold in to Pinal or Fort McDowell ? I'm thinking I may have seen it in Ely's book or maybe the Bark notes but not sure.

 

[azdave35]

Somewhere lost in all the dutchman books is the story of an Army captain named Foresyth who walks in a store at either Pinal or Fort McDowell and in a glass case sees a specimen of gold in a dark black rock. Forsyth can't believe the specimens are real but the store owner assures him it is certainly real and was brought in by an Indian from somewhere out in the mountains. The Indian said it came from a mine where the gold looked like stars in the night sky.

Does anybody know where this story can be found? It seems I read it once in the Bark notes or Ely's book possibly?

I have always been interested in this story and it's origins because many years back I was involved with a partner who had gold in this black rock and he showed me where it came from and I was able to find more at the same location.

Has anyone else ever seen ore like this in the mountains or know of samples taken by others?

The photos and the ore are mine. If you look closely you will also see a green copper stain of malachite in the ore. It is the strangest and most unexplainable gold I have ever seen or been involved with.

View attachment 1910345
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View attachment 1910347

matthew...is that the ore you had at the rendezvous a few years ago ?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Matthew, there's only one tiny speck of gold in my sample, maybe 1/8" in diameter. Yours looks a lot richer

Sounds like you're away from your research materials...I don't recall the story but will look for it and get back to you...maybe Greg will check in and let us know...but I'll look for it.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Thanks Jim. Yes, I've been at Playa Dorada baja California for the past year and only have with me the things I have stored on my phone and tablet. Since your sample came from the Superstitions we may have gotten them from the same location.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

matthew...is that the ore you had at the rendezvous a few years ago ?

Dave,

Its very possible I had a piece or two at the Rendezvous. The year Clay and I were there together we each brought several samples of gold.

 

[Cubfan64]

Dave,

Its very possible I had a piece or two at the Rendezvous. The year Clay and I were there together we each brought several samples of gold.

I know you brought a piece or two to one of the Rendezvous I was at but the time I'm thinking of would have been one of the earlier ones I attended. Perhaps you brought them out 2 times?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I know you brought a piece or two to one of the Rendezvous I was at but the time I'm thinking of would have been one of the earlier ones I attended. Perhaps you brought them out 2 times?

That may have been the case. I've been to all the Rendezvous but two and have brought things along each time. I can't remember anymore which times I brought some gold samples.

 

[Cubfan64]

That may have been the case. I've been to all the Rendezvous but two and have brought things along each time. I can't remember anymore which times I brought some gold samples.

The only reference I can find to gold looking like "stars in the night sky" comes from Ely's book page 153 where there is a discussion where Ely and a Presbyterian minister friend by the name of Emerson met up with an old Pima man named Pahsaum who had once said he would show Jim Bark where a gold mine was. Apparently Bark offended him during their trip and Pahsaum turned around and went home. Ely says Pahsaum agreed to answer a couple questions once of which was "what was the appearance of the ore? What did it look like? Pahsaum pointed towards the sky and said "like many stars."

There may very well be another source for that story, but that's the only one I found in the Bark Notes or Ely's book.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Good catch, Paul. Kissum from the Bark notes. Why do I seem to remember Capt. Forsythe? And the black wall where the gold shone like stars? But like Matthew I can't remember where I saw it. Tried the Bark Notes and Ely. Nada. Looked at Allen's book today (an obscure reference for me, kind of like Forsythe, an obscure memory) page by page, nothing...will keep at it.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Ely says Pahsaum agreed to answer a couple questions once of which was "what was the appearance of the ore? What did it look like? Pahsaum pointed towards the sky and said "like many stars."

That may be the quote Paul because to point to the sky and say the gold looked like stars he had to mean the stars at night in a black sky.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Good catch, Paul. Kissum from the Bark notes. Why do I seem to remember Capt. Forsythe? And the black wall where the gold shone like stars? But like Matthew I can't remember where I saw it. Tried the Bark Notes and Ely. Nada. Looked at Allen's book today (an obscure reference for me, kind of like Forsythe, an obscure memory) page by page, nothing...will keep at it.

Thanks Jim. Did Dr. Glover mention a Forsythe in his first book the Golden Dream ? I remember something about Glover listing a number of gold stories in one of his books but am not sure which one.

 

[Cubfan64]

Thanks Jim. Did Dr. Glover mention a Forsythe in his first book the Golden Dream ? I remember something about Glover listing a number of gold stories in one of his books but am not sure which one.

Hmm - I'll have to check that tonight too - maybe that's where it's coming from. I saw another reference from one of the old forum posts on a different site that Apache Jack had said that about looking like stars in a night sky. Sounds like maybe another one of those jumbled stories that gets intertwined over time with others.

 

[Ponteach]

Matthew
I exchange with Nyal in march 2016, he retire in june 2016, In 2017 the collection and museum were transferred once again to Research, Discovery & Innovation team at the Univ of Arizona. Both collection and museum reside there today. You can still get your rocks, U have to find the contact.

 

[Cubfan64]

Thanks Jim. Did Dr. Glover mention a Forsythe in his first book the Golden Dream ? I remember something about Glover listing a number of gold stories in one of his books but am not sure which one.

I couldn't find anything in Glover's first book referencing a Forsythe or any stories about dark ore with "star like" gold in it, but I did find in his book "Twice Told Tales" a brief mention of the Polka Mine story and it one point he mentions that some sources claim the ore from the Polka Mine had gold in it "like stars in the night sky," but that not all sources describe it the same way.

That's the best I can do without digging way deeper

 

[markmar]

Somewhere lost in all the dutchman books is the story of an Army captain named Foresyth who walks in a store at either Pinal or Fort McDowell and in a glass case sees a specimen of gold in a dark black rock. Forsyth can't believe the specimens are real but the store owner assures him it is certainly real and was brought in by an Indian from somewhere out in the mountains. The Indian said it came from a mine where the gold looked like stars in the night sky.

Does anybody know where this story can be found? It seems I read it once in the Bark notes or Ely's book possibly?

I have always been interested in this story and it's origins because many years back I was involved with a partner who had gold in this black rock and he showed me where it came from and I was able to find more at the same location.

Has anyone else ever seen ore like this in the mountains or know of samples taken by others?

The photos and the ore are mine. If you look closely you will also see a green copper stain of malachite in the ore. It is the strangest and most unexplainable gold I have ever seen or been involved with.

View attachment 1910345
View attachment 1910346
View attachment 1910347

Hi Matthew
The mention to the ore you have displayed, was made in the Ely's book, page# 84. I took a print screen of the book's page which I have read occasionally at Internet Archive site, and I marked with a blue rectangle the mention to the story. The red lines on the book was already drew by the person who gave the book to the site.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hi Matthew
The mention to the ore you have displayed, was made in the Ely's book, page# 84. I took a print screen of the book's page which I have read occasionally at Internet Archive site, and I marked with a blue rectangle the mention to the story. The red lines on the book was already drew by the person who gave the book to the site.

Thanks markmar ! I knew I had read the story somewhere, that is the account I was thinking of. Appreciate your finding it for me. The gold in the black rock is some of the strangest ore I ever saw in the Superstitions. Hope you are doing well. I've been in Mexico now for going on two years.