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[Doc4261]

I remember there was a Waltz clue of having to go past an Indian circle on the trail to get to his mine. Does anyone know what book or any related info to this clue? TIA

 

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[Matthew Roberts]

It's in the directions Waltz gave to Dick Holmes and Gideon Roberts on Waltzs deathbed.

.....you go through a saddle with a round Indian ruin of rocks......

I don't remember exactly where in the confession Waltz says this but it's probably near the rock that looks like a man and the four peaks looking like one.

 

[Al D]

There is nowhere within the Superstitions where Four Peaks looks like one,

 

[Doc4261]

It's in the directions Waltz gave to Dick Holmes and Gideon Roberts on Waltzs deathbed.

.....you go through a saddle with a round Indian ruin of rocks......

I don't remember exactly where in the confession Waltz says this but it's probably near the rock that looks like a man and the four peaks looking like one.

Thanks you, your knowledge is greatly appreciated.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

There is nowhere within the Superstitions where Four Peaks looks like one,

alan,

You are absolutely correct. 3 of the peaks line up nicely but the last peak, the farthest, kicks off and while close, does not align with the other 3.

Al Reser and I were sitting on a high point of Tortilla mountain one time and discussing the four peaks alignment clue. Al said to me, the 3 closest peaks line up perfectly and there is a line going through the Superstitions that you can follow that alignment. Maybe Waltz eyesight wasn't that good and to him four peaks did appear to align. Al felt the alignment of the 3 peaks that did line up was as good as having the 4th align right along with them. You can draw lines on a topo map from 4 peaks to Weavers Needle, Miners Needle and any other landmark you choose.

 

[Idahodutch]

There is nowhere within the Superstitions where Four Peaks looks like one,

 

[Al D]

Yes, I know I am like a broken record, hehe

 

[somehiker]

That clue reminds me of this shot from the intersection of #88 and First Water road.
Frog Peaks in the foreground....Four Peaks in the background.



Lots of places out there where Frog peaks line up as one...

 

[Doc4261]

alan,

You are absolutely correct. 3 of the peaks line up nicely but the last peak, the farthest, kicks off and while close, does not align with the other 3.

Al Reser and I were sitting on a high point of Tortilla mountain one time and discussing the four peaks alignment clue. Al said to me, the 3 closest peaks line up perfectly and there is a line going through the Superstitions that you can follow that alignment. Maybe Waltz eyesight wasn't that good and to him four peaks did appear to align. Al felt the alignment of the 3 peaks that did line up was as good as having the 4th align right along with them. You can draw lines on a topo map from 4 peaks to Weavers Needle, Miners Needle and any other landmark you choose.

My thought on it is that he wasnt talking about the 4 peaks we all know but a different mntn. Just my take.

 

[somehiker]

My thought on it is that he wasnt talking about the 4 peaks we all know but a different mntn. Just my take.

Waltz was close to taking his last breath....likely having a difficult time saying what he wanted to.
Could the two men have heard it wrong...."four peaks" instead of "frog peaks" ?

 

[Idahodutch]

I think the clue is legit. It’s been talked about and a spot was pointed out .... one not that hard to get to, if one wanted to see for themself.
No photo was taken or provided, but sounds like nobody has checked either
I can’t blame anyone, but there are others that have said they have seen that clue come to life, and not all that long ago.

Difference being, any other folk’s locations aren’t getting posted (that I’ve noticed) .... just in case field verification was desired by someone really wanting to know for themself ... If is it really so?

Edit: I mean the clue about Four Peaks looking like one, while standing on the high point of a low ridge, after going through the the saddle that ties into the low ridge, and then looking to the North, can see Four Peaks and they look like one peak.

So if you can see Four Peaks, but only one peak is visible ..... isn’t that a fit?
.... I mean after going through saddle, to high point of low ridge, look towards the North at Four Peaks , but the only part that is visible is just one peak ..... Dang, can’t be it then, cause can only see one peak?

 

[Idahodutch]

The saddle no longer had an Indian ruin of a circle of rocks, that I saw.... if it was correct saddle.

 

[somehiker]

The saddle no longer had an Indian ruin of a circle of rocks, that I saw.... if it was correct saddle.

Is there another saddle nearby.....perhaps along a route of travel/trail ?
Or other ruins ?

 

[somehiker]

That clue reminds me of this shot from the intersection of #88 and First Water road.
Frog Peaks in the foreground....Four Peaks in the background.

View attachment 1910921

Lots of places out there where Frog peaks line up as one...

And Frog Peaks from another vantage point......




Might be a great place to look around.

 

[Idahodutch]

Is there another saddle nearby.....perhaps along a route of travel/trail ?

Just West along the Low ridge, there is a saddle of sorts .... a much smaller saddle. Could be the saddle, as still would be going to the high point of the low ridge to view FourPeaks. I looked to see if I could see a ring of rocks on it, but only looked via GE. Didn’t see anything, but a negative doesn’t rule it out.

There is another saddle, that I was PM about, and it fits for seeing Four Peaks as one peak also. It just wasn’t posted as such. Reaching that spot from Bicknells article doesn’t happen unless a couple of portions are modified a little.

As far as I can tell, there is not another Saddle/Low Ridge/FourPeaks/Ravine facing Northward scenario that can be reached by both of the directions; from the Holmes Manuscript, as well as Bicknells article. And let’s not forget, even Herman puts it about a mile farther to the “Quartz” than to the “placer”; Which coincidentally keeps the destination from passing the little red hills if the mile farther, is north. Supposedly Weavers Needle is South of the “Quartz”.

I’m not saying there can’t be another, I just haven’t located any other within the parameters of the different directions.
I actually would sort of welcome another possibility. Maybe I would be able to let go easier.

 

[Idahodutch]

If Herman’s interview rules out Peters Mesa, makes me wonder about Ruth supposedly being found up there
If on his own accord, would have been for something other than LDM. I’m still not convinced he was moved at all.
But that is another thread ...

Edit; I will go ahead and ask .... does anyone know if Ruth had interviewed Herman?

 

[Idahodutch]

He could have been back tracking the mile when met his demise, if he had that info from Herman ...

 

[azdave35]

If Herman’s interview rules out Peters Mesa, makes me wonder about Ruth supposedly being found up there
If on his own accord, would have been for something other than LDM. I’m still not convinced he was moved at all.
But that is another thread ...

Edit; I will go ahead and ask .... does anyone know if Ruth had interviewed Herman?

dutch....even if ruth did interview herman...all he would have gotten is the same b.s. herman gave everyone else...and herman didn't know the location of the ldm..

 

[Idahodutch]

dutch....even if ruth did interview herman...all he would have gotten is the same b.s. herman gave everyone else...and herman didn't know the location of the ldm..

I agree that Herman didn’t find it. But a couple of things happened .... apparently.
Herman received the info about distances of mines, from the camp near the spring.
Herman gave up on the area, and joined his dad in a different search area.

Had he stayed the course, we might not be having this conversation.

If he had the information, he probably got it from Rhiney.
Ruth could have gotten that little tidbit of info from either Rhiney, or Herman, unless Rhiney wasn’t around, when Ruth was there. I lack study of Rhiney, and Herman.

I’m was just tossing out that where Ruth was found, perhaps had an explanation that is just getting discovered.
We weren’t there ... and lots of stories . . This kind of makes sense for the location.

 

[markmar]

IMHO, that circle of stones still be on the proper saddle. I post two modified crops of real bigger pictures which were taken in two different times of the day. The zoom is different also but the circle of rocks can be distinguished in the center, marked with yellow circle.