Looking For Advice about Numbers/Letters carved on Stone

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TriEye

TriEye

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What's the closest compass bearing on the crackline running thru it? like 330/150 ? 300/120? 240/60? 270/180? If rock hasn't been moved.
Im pretty sure it hasn't moved in a very long time. Here's the bearing...
 

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Quinoa

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Probably means 270/90, West/East if anything.. Not a perfectly straight crack. Sometimes a crack is pointer. Just guessing at this point, but better than nothing. East/West, small marker, under 99 feet. Probably varas, so 25 varas is 68.75 feet , 20 varas is 55 feet, 30 varas is 82.5 feet (all 33 inch vara) 15 varas is 41.25 feet, 10 varas is 27.5 feet.
 

Quinoa

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Probably means 270/90, West/East if anything.. Not a perfectly straight crack. Sometimes a crack is pointer. Just guessing at this point, but better than nothing. East/West, small marker, under 99 feet. Probably varas, so 25 varas is 68.75 feet , 20 varas is 55 feet, 30 varas is 82.5 feet (all 33 inch vara) 15 varas is 41.25 feet, 10 varas is 27.5 feet.
Could be 3 degrees off the east west, but it's generally -3 under. like 267/87 vs 273/93. but I guess it's who dunnit.
Very hard to say a whole lot that is usable. I'm guessing/ your guessing , but I'm giving you some distances and bearings you didn't have before.
 

sdcfia

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Im pretty sure it hasn't moved in a very long time. Here's the bearing...
The south edge of the rock is the straight edge. If you think the rock's alignment is important, just follow that line east and west and see if you find anything interesting. Distance? Who knows? Might be 10 feet, might be much more.
 

Quinoa

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The very first picture on this thread, I saw a large grooved Number 5 with an E below it (shaped liked a backwards 3). Maybe 5 paces East.
 

Quinoa

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And it could be an old surveyor's mark. Whatever else is carved on the rock, then "range 5 east". I wouldn't overlook anything . Bad or good. It's all part of what you do on these type places. Nothing is totally insignificant.
 

sdcfia

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And it could be an old surveyor's mark. Whatever else is carved on the rock, then "range 5 east". I wouldn't overlook anything . Bad or good. It's all part of what you do on these type places. Nothing is totally insignificant.
That's right. Speaking of surveying, most folks have used the BLM GLO website for downloading old plats - Township Plats, Land Patents, Mineral Surveys, Homestead Entries and the like. https://glorecords.blm.gov/default.aspx

Another option on that site that has provided us with all kinds of useful information is the Surveyor's Field Notes, if available, for the plat you're researching. In addition to technical data, the surveyors often provided their observations of terrain, historical cultural development, old roads, agriculture, other human activities, etc. This is especially true for the Township Plats.
 
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TriEye

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That's right. Speaking of surveying, most folks have used the BLM GLO website for downloading old plats - Township Plats, Land Patents, Mineral Surveys, Homestead Entries and the like. https://glorecords.blm.gov/default.aspx

Another option on that site that has provided us with all kinds of useful information is the Surveyor's Field Notes, if available, for the plat you're researching. In addition to technical data, the surveyors often provided their observations of terrain, historical cultural development, old roads, agriculture, other human activities, etc. This is especially true for the Township Plats.
You are right, there are tons of useful research materials available online through the GLO BLM site. Ive spent many hours going over the few BLM plats maps, survey field notes, and other limited information and leads I could find related to the area. Unfortunately the surveys for this township- range -section were subcontracted and poorly executed by a team (or teams) of untrained locals with limited or no surveying experience from nearby areas that were hired specifically to do the foot work in this hilly inhospitable area so that the actual surveyor in charge didn't have to bother with walking the difficult terrain himself. The first survey of this area was so poorly executed it was rejected by the state and a resurvey took place years later, but still only covered the absolute minimum of information the state required to approve a survey. The field notes describe the area as unfit for farming, too treacherous to be logged, and a much later survey describes it as a worthless region of impassable steep mountains, hills, deep rocky crags, and valleys." The only survey markers I can find mentioned in the earliest field notes are on trees, nothing about any rock markers are mentioned. But I did find the specifics required by the state for stone survey markers as well as the other official methods and acceptable materials to use during the time period. This stone doesn't seem to follow the regulations.
 

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sdcfia

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You are right, there are tons of useful research materials available online through the GLO BLM site. Ive spent many hours going over the few BLM plats maps, survey field notes, and other limited information and leads I could find related to the area. Unfortunately the surveys for this township- range -section were subcontracted and poorly executed by a team (or teams) of untrained locals with limited or no surveying experience from nearby areas that were hired specifically to do the foot work in this hilly inhospitable area so that the actual surveyor in charge didn't have to bother with walking the difficult terrain himself. The first survey of this area was so poorly executed it was rejected by the state and a resurvey took place years later, but still only covered the absolute minimum of information the state required to approve a survey. The field notes describe the area as unfit for farming, too treacherous to be logged, and a much later survey describes it as a worthless region of impassable steep mountains, hills, deep rocky crags, and valleys." The only survey markers I can find mentioned in the earliest field notes are on trees, nothing about any rock markers are mentioned. But I did find the specifics required by the state for stone survey markers as well as the other official methods and acceptable materials to use during the time period. This stone doesn't seem to follow the regulations.
Wow. Based on what these notes say, If that stone was created as part of a pre-Civil War Arkansas land survey, it may be useless in determining any accurate boundaries from that time period. That said, if the stone has some other purpose, then you're starting from ground zero - as you've seemingly already determined.

As with all such enigmatic field clues (etched stones, trees carvings, cairns, even maps, etc), their creators generally are the only ones who knew exactly what their purposes and messages were. Where to go from here? The options seem to all be random unless you can find some historical context in the area or another clue nearby. Good luck.
 
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TriEye

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Wow. Based on what these notes say, If that stone was created as part of a pre-Civil War Arkansas land survey, it may be useless in determining any accurate boundaries from that time period. That said, if the stone has some other purpose, then you're starting from ground zero - as you've seemingly already determined.

As with all such enigmatic field clues (etched stones, trees carvings, cairns, even maps, etc), their creators generally are the only ones who knew exactly what their purposes and messages were. Where to go from here? The options seem to all be random unless you can find some historical context in the area or another clue nearby. Good luck.
Thats why I brought the subject of this stone to these forums. I've exhausted most of the online research options that I am aware of. I knew it was a long shot, but hoped some experts like yourselves could enlighten me with some sort of occult method of interpreting the characters and/or the placement of such an odd stone monument in the middle of nowhere. I am aware that I could be optimistically ( or naively ) trying to make something out of what could very well be just some hunter's old school graffiti or some kind of survey marker constructed by ignorant or amatuer surveyors as part of an inaccurate and now irrelevant survey of the area. But after some more on site analysis and better pictures, I have noted a few oddities with the carving itself that I thought might be worth asking all of the well researched experts that frequent these forums. I'll try to get the pictures uploaded later today
 

mdog

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It is more than 15 miles from center point. At first I thought the stone was a headstone. But the haphazard content of the carving was kind of messy and ambiguous for a funeral monument. I'll try some precise measurements and see if anything interesting jumps out at me. The location is at the foot of a series of steep ridges that run east/west and a very old wagon road runs parallel with the ridges at it's foot. There is a powerful wet weather creek that runs perpendicular to the ridges through the only gap in the ridges for miles. The site is a black walnut Grove with huge black walnut trees that produce nuts prolifically. The rock pile I mentioned, i was always told, was the homestead of a wheel wright and Confederate officer who homesteaded in 1850s and purchased the land with cash in early 1860 (which I have confirmed with BLM records.) The tall rock pile I mentioned, I was told,was what remains of the foundation that was pushed into the hole left by the root cellar or basement with a tractor in modern times. There are remains of numerous stacked rock structures in the general area. I find many barrel bands, hangforged tools, wagon remains, bottles, ECT and once a Confederate officers button while metal detecting nearby. Down stream from the site, there are remains of a rock structure that might have straddled the creek and was washed away long ago. Amongst it's remains I've found a hand forged hitching post ring. When I was a child on two different occasions, years apart, two different mysterious old men showed up and claimed that there was tresure hidden on the property and wanted to walk around to look for clues. My parents weren't interested in their stories and ran them off, unfortunately. But I have never been able to forget them. The property once belonged to my family but was lost to the bank and sold to new owners last year. While walking around reminiscing before the landscape is changed forever, I happened upon the stone with the carvings and my jaw dropped. It could be nothing, but I would never be able to forgive myself if I didn't investigate it while I still had the chance. Thanks for any input you guys can offer.
The two old guys who were looking for treasure and wanted to search for clues, were probably going to look for rock or tree carvings.
 

mdog

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It is more than 15 miles from center point. At first I thought the stone was a headstone. But the haphazard content of the carving was kind of messy and ambiguous for a funeral monument. I'll try some precise measurements and see if anything interesting jumps out at me. The location is at the foot of a series of steep ridges that run east/west and a very old wagon road runs parallel with the ridges at it's foot. There is a powerful wet weather creek that runs perpendicular to the ridges through the only gap in the ridges for miles. The site is a black walnut Grove with huge black walnut trees that produce nuts prolifically. The rock pile I mentioned, i was always told, was the homestead of a wheel wright and Confederate officer who homesteaded in 1850s and purchased the land with cash in early 1860 (which I have confirmed with BLM records.) The tall rock pile I mentioned, I was told,was what remains of the foundation that was pushed into the hole left by the root cellar or basement with a tractor in modern times. There are remains of numerous stacked rock structures in the general area. I find many barrel bands, hangforged tools, wagon remains, bottles, ECT and once a Confederate officers button while metal detecting nearby. Down stream from the site, there are remains of a rock structure that might have straddled the creek and was washed away long ago. Amongst it's remains I've found a hand forged hitching post ring. When I was a child on two different occasions, years apart, two different mysterious old men showed up and claimed that there was tresure hidden on the property and wanted to walk around to look for clues. My parents weren't interested in their stories and ran them off, unfortunately. But I have never been able to forget them. The property once belonged to my family but was lost to the bank and sold to new owners last year. While walking around reminiscing before the landscape is changed forever, I happened upon the stone with the carvings and my jaw dropped. It could be nothing, but I would never be able to forgive myself if I didn't investigate it while I still had the chance. Thanks for any input you guys can offer.
The gap in the ridge, does it go through the hills to another valley or does it go to the top of the bluff. Also, could a horse or wagon move along the creek through the gap.
 

mdog

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Im pretty sure it hasn't moved in a very long time. Here's the bearing...
What is the position of this rock in relation to the gap in the ridges. Does the line in the crack point toward the gap, to the east or to the west. With the old road running parallel to the ridge and with all the artifacts you have found, anything hidden would probably be hidden a distance away from this area. If people can easily move through the gap, anything hidden could be at the top of the ridge, away from the traffic. In his book, New Mexico Confidential, Thirty Years of Snooping in Obscure Places, Steve Clark wrote about a bearing of 85 degrees going to a marker. I have found that heading many times, locally as well in treasure related legends. What do you have to the east of the rock, in this post.
 
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TriEye

TriEye

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The gap in the ridge, does it go through the hills to another valley or does it go to the top of the bluff. Also, could a horse or wagon move along the creek through the gap.
It goes through the ridge to the next valley, another even steeper named ridge runs parallel with the first, less than a mile south in the same direction, There was an intersection of wagon roads on the opposite bank of the creek from the stone. The first road I mentioned runs east/west along the foot of the ridges and the other runs north/south through the gap in first ridge into the enclosed valley to the south and makes it's way up the steeper ridge on the long forgotten road to an area I have been told has a large stone monument stacked into a bench or stone henge shaped formation. I have been told that inside this enclosed valley is a small bluff with a cave where a very very old glass bottle still full of liquor and some very old firearms were found. My source said he would not search any deeper because of the terrifying amount of snakes he came across in and around the cave!
 
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mdog

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It goes through the ridge to the next valley, another even steeper named ridge runs parallel with the first, less than a mile south in the same direction, There was an intersection of wagon roads on the opposite bank of the creek from the stone. The first road I mentioned runs east/west along the foot of the ridges and the other runs north/south through the gap in first ridge into the enclosed valley to the south and makes it's way up the steeper ridge on the long forgotten road to an area I have been told has a large stone monument stacked into a bench or stone henge shaped formation. I have been told that inside this enclosed valley is a small bluff with a cave where a very very old glass bottle still full of liquor and some very old firearms were found. My source said he would not search any deeper because of the terrifying amount of snakes he came across in and around the cave!
Maybe the cave is where the treasure is, or was. Have you seen any pictures of the firearms or the old bottle, that might help in dating. I hate snakes.
 

mdog

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It goes through the ridge to the next valley, another even steeper named ridge runs parallel with the first, less than a mile south in the same direction, There was an intersection of wagon roads on the opposite bank of the creek from the stone. The first road I mentioned runs east/west along the foot of the ridges and the other runs north/south through the gap in first ridge into the enclosed valley to the south and makes it's way up the steeper ridge on the long forgotten road to an area I have been told has a large stone monument stacked into a bench or stone henge shaped formation. I have been told that inside this enclosed valley is a small bluff with a cave where a very very old glass bottle still full of liquor and some very old firearms were found. My source said he would not search any deeper because of the terrifying amount of snakes he came across in and around the cave!
It might be that the stonehenge formation is the same shape as your oval but maybe larger.
 
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TriEye

TriEye

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I would guess that your place is not treasure related but the 193 caught my attention. The numbers add up to 13 and I've seen that number, many times, at the one site that I've studied. Is this site more than 15 miles from Center Point. There's a place called Wildcat Bluff that has a KGC legend associated with it.
If you're in a big hurry, Sandy1 has a thread, A Guide to Vault Treasure Hunting condensed, that describes a technique where an aura of light can be caught in a photograph. I've never used it but some guys have and they have had some luck capturing an aura.
If you have some time, you can do some measuring with a cloth tape measure. The oval could indicate an eye. Measure the outside of the oval and see how it compares with the numbers 193. For example, you said the oval was about 8 feet long, 8x12=96, 96x2=192, 192 is one off 193. Get good measurements and compare them. Measure all the carvings on each rock and look for similarities.
Give us more information about the terrain, is there high ground to the west, are you close to a river or creek. Also, is there any reason that you might think there is anything of value there.
Also, I noticed that there is a community named Center Point within fifteen miles of this site. I'm not sure if it is the one you mentioned because there seems to be more than one Center Point around the state...
 

mdog

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Also, I noticed that there is a community named Center Point within fifteen miles of this site. I'm not sure if it is the one you mentioned because there seems to be more than one Center Point around the state...
If you google Wildcat Bluff it will show you how close the bluff is to your area.
 

mdog

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If you google Wildcat Bluff it will show you how close the bluff is to your area.
The Center Point that I'm referring to is 8 miles northwest of Nashville and Wildcat Bluff is 10 miles northeast of Center Point. Are you close to this area. There have been treasure hunters looking for KGC treasure in the area close to the bluff.
 

mdog

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It goes through the ridge to the next valley, another even steeper named ridge runs parallel with the first, less than a mile south in the same direction, There was an intersection of wagon roads on the opposite bank of the creek from the stone. The first road I mentioned runs east/west along the foot of the ridges and the other runs north/south through the gap in first ridge into the enclosed valley to the south and makes it's way up the steeper ridge on the long forgotten road to an area I have been told has a large stone monument stacked into a bench or stone henge shaped formation. I have been told that inside this enclosed valley is a small bluff with a cave where a very very old glass bottle still full of liquor and some very old firearms were found. My source said he would not search any deeper because of the terrifying amount of snakes he came across in and around the cave!
What is the position of the rock with the east/west crack in it. Is it on the east side or the west side of the north/south road that goes through the gap.
 

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