Looking for ground balance tech info maybe better luck in this thread

[DigDog201]

Had posted about gb in Florida soil and someone replied who hunts here as well and said the soil is neutral here.
So trying to understand how gb on detectors work in neutral soil. If someone who has technical expertise on the issue can answer this question thanks
Here is the question then when the soil is neutral where do you set the gb then assuming you have a machine
where you are supposed to set it before detecting?
Or does it just not matter where it is set at in that case.
Not exactly sure how the physics behind it work.
Like a machine with fixed gb or auto does it just not do anything at that point and is basically a mute point.
Theoretically then you can use any detector in neutral soil and not have to worry about ground balancing and they will not be affected?
Not having to worry about any gb would open you up to a much bigger selection and then just have a separate detector specifically for beach and salt water like a PI machine
I get the need for it in mineralized soil to adjust to work better but not understanding
ing and affecting the detector.

 

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[smokeythecat]

Some machines have a preset ground balance, most modern machines you have to balance it yourself. It would help which machine you use. Iron rich soil will read a lot different than mild sandy loam soil let alone salt beaches. These days you do NOT need a PI machine for shallow salt water hunting. The Minelab Equinox 600 and 800 and the XP Deus II are great for all conditions. But they are not cheap.

 

[DigDog201]

Some machines have a preset ground balance, most modern machines you have to balance it yourself. It would help which machine you use. Iron rich soil will read a lot different than mild sandy loam soil let alone salt beaches. These days you do NOT need a PI machine for shallow salt water hunting. The Minelab Equinox 600 and 800 and the XP Deus II are great for all conditions. But they are not cheap.

I have neutral soil just wondering how gb works in neutral soil weather its a fixed gb machine or auto.
Does it just shut off the gb part of the machine or something not really understanding what is going on in the detector when it has nothing to balance

 

[crashbandicoot]

I have neutral soil just wondering how gb works in neutral soil weather its a fixed gb machine or auto.
Does it just shut off the gb part of the machine or something not really understanding what is going on in the detector when it has nothing to balance

I think you,re misunderstanding neutral soil.As I understand it, neutral soil refers to a lack of iron or salt in the soil.Your machine still has to know this,thus why the need to ground balance,even in so called neutral soil.If you have a machine with fixed balance,no problem,nothing to do there! If you have auto ground balance just set in that mode and go.If you have manual ground balance,follow the instructions in the manual for your machine. You do have a manual,right? I think you,re over reacting and obsessing over something that,s really not the problem you think. Forget all that and go detecting! If you can,t let it go,write the technical Dept.of your detector manufacturer and ask for an explanation.

 

[DigDog201]

I think you,re misunderstanding neutral soil.As I understand it, neutral soil refers to a lack of iron or salt in the soil.Your machine still has to know this,thus why the need to ground balance,even in so called neutral soil.If you have a machine with fixed balance,no problem,nothing to do there! If you have auto ground balance just set in that mode and go.If you have manual ground balance,follow the instructions in the manual for your machine. You do have a manual,right? I think you,re over reacting and obsessing over something that,s really not the problem you think. Forget all that and go detecting! If you can,t let it go,write the technical Dept.of your detector manufacturer and ask for an explanation.

Your right that im probably overthinking and obsessing about it usually do with some things lol but still would like a good understanding as well. I probably am misunderstanding as to why im also trying to learn little more about it. I know some don’t understand the workings of things nor care too just turn on and go. I always bben one to tey an understand how something works as well. Good example is a vehicle. Sometimes it can come in handy weather it break down, keeping it from breaking down or just run better.
Im starting to get a better understanding just still confused on few things ok so the detector needs to know the soil even if it is neutral to work optimal. But for example on a machine with manual gb i do it exactly how the manual says pump coil up and down depending on the response on the down or up motion the tone can increase or decrease which tells you if you are positive or negative and adjust the knob accordingly. Well that’s the thing no matter where the knob is on any manual gb detector i get no tone whatsoever. I was told that’s because my soil is neutral. Ok . So where do i leave the knob then in that case?
As for a fixed gb machine they can be fixed either slightly positive or negative. Ok. Does either one of those settings have a advantage or disadvantage then if the soil is neutral?
I think its pretty rare to have this neutral of a soil and for most that hunt in areas where there is some sort of minimization they might not exactly grasp what i am dealing with when they are always ground balancing their detector based on the response they are receiving bit then maybe if they try it here and get absolutely no response might think what the heck is wrong with my detector its not giving me any kind of tone. Hope this helps explain little more and I don’t think im too far out trying to understand why i am not experiencing anything that either the manual says or anyone else says that uses gb.
And ifs happened with multiple detectors so i know it wasn’t just one not working so im just trying to figure out why. I mean if manual gb has absolutely no use because no matter where you set it then why spend extra money and even worry about ground balancing. Just confirming this is actually the case and while im at it again if a fixed gb machine leaning one way or the other even makes a difference
Thanks

 

[crashbandicoot]

You,ve lost me,I have no idea what it is you,re trying to accomplish or understand. I still say you,re misunderstanding the terms neutral soil,positive soil and negative soil based on something you read.I,ve never seen those terms used before now to describe soil conditions. Soil is either mineralized or not.The only other condition being salt beaches and such.It,s my understanding ground balance is a good thing to have on your machine. Your question properly needs to go to a highly knowledgeable Tech Rep of whatever brand of machine you have or are intending to buy. Scroll down the forums page to the "Brands"forum.There,s a thread for just about every brand and model of detector out there,maybe you can divine the answer to your questions there. My opinion is you,re way overthinking this to the detriment of your enjoyment,but more power to you.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Let me try one more time.What you,re referring to as neutral soil still has a ground balance,it,s displayed as a number on some machines. Just because someone,somewhere referred to soil as neutral doesn,t mean it,s free of need to ground balance and most all soils will cause a ground balance number to display,regardless of how it,s composed.

 

[traveller777]

Too much here on posts to read all this for an old man like me. But it is very simple.

First, what kind of detector are you using? I may have missed it.

But simply, ground balance is used for mineralized soil. In my area sometimes I am in manual and sometimes auto balance. Many different kinds of soil but always mineralized here. But that is where I live. It BALANCES out the soil minerals so they do not interfere with target signals.
Next, I never heard of neutral soil, but if you are talking about low or virtually no mineralization in soil, then do not use ground balance. Turn it off. That will cover beaches and likely most of Florida I would think. I do not hunt those type areas but running ground balance when not needed may cause chatter.

There, that is simple. That is all there is.

 

[DigDog201]

You,ve lost me,I have no idea what it is you,re trying to accomplish or understand. I still say you,re misunderstanding the terms neutral soil,positive soil and negative soil based on something you read.I,ve never seen those terms used before now to describe soil conditions. Soil is either mineralized or not.The only other condition being salt beaches and such.It,s my understanding ground balance is a good thing to have on your machine. Your question properly needs to go to a highly knowledgeable Tech Rep of whatever brand of machine you have or are intending to buy. Scroll down the forums page to the "Brands"forum.There,s a thread for just about every brand and model of detector out there,maybe you can divine the answer to your questions there. My opinion is you,re way overthinking this to the detriment of your enjoyment,but more power to you.

Ok hold on and let me see
If i can get some quotations
This might be the disconnect the terminologies.
I just repeat what i read and from what i read people say that soil that is not mineralized weather it be from iron, clay, salt water is considered to be “neutral” soil. If this is the correct terminology in metal detecting I don’t know because i am neither an expert nor a electrical engineer that designs metal detectors. Perhaps this is what’s confusing to me and everyone else. I am sorry, just trying to learn and understand myself. Again i can only go by what other experienced people say. I really appreciate everyone’s help. I know some as i used in an analogy they just turn on and go not knowing or caring how something works for example a car.
But it does help to understand basically how a car works to help if you break down, prevent a break down or just to operate it efficiently.
Thats all I’m trying to accomplish.
Let me just try to rephrase it some.
If i have a manual gb detector with a adjustable knob and the manual says to gb you pump the coil up and down and if the tone increases as you lower the coil or lift the coil it tells you weather your detector is either set to positive or negative and you turn or adjust the knob accordingly until its recommended a little positive if anything.
Now i assume that is the correct way to gb most manual gb detectors no matter the brand from what i have read
This is why i am confused on why everyone wants to know the brand they all pretty much say to gb the same way if its a manual gb detector.
So here is the main point
While doing the process of ground balancing i do not get a tone either way up or down and no matter where the knob is set.
Why?
Well people say because your soil has no mineralization, no iron, no clay no salt and is “neutral” or “neutral soil”
Ok so my end question if my soil has no iron no clay no salt nothing that would make it to where you have to set your gb where do you leave the knob does it matter
If you leave it one way your detector is set more negative if the other way it is set more positive.
On a fixed gb detector the factory sets it “fixed” at a certain point to where in most cases it is set a little positive assuming they have minimization. Well if i have no mineralization is a “fixed” gb detector better or worse for my soil conditions

 

[crashbandicoot]

Ok hold on and let me see
If i can get some quotations
This might be the disconnect the terminologies.
I just repeat what i read and from what i read people say that soil that is not mineralized weather it be from iron, clay, salt water is considered to be “neutral” soil. If this is the correct terminology in metal detecting I don’t know because i am neither an expert nor a electrical engineer that designs metal detectors. Perhaps this is what’s confusing to me and everyone else. I am sorry, just trying to learn and understand myself. Again i can only go by what other experienced people say. I really appreciate everyone’s help. I know some as i used in an analogy they just turn on and go not knowing or caring how something works for example a car.
But it does help to understand basically how a car works to help if you break down, prevent a break down or just to operate it efficiently.
Thats all I’m trying to accomplish.
Let me just try to rephrase it some.
If i have a manual gb detector with a adjustable knob and the manual says to gb you pump the coil up and down and if the tone increases as you lower the coil or lift the coil it tells you weather your detector is either set to positive or negative and you turn or adjust the knob accordingly until its recommended a little positive if anything.
Now i assume that is the correct way to gb most manual gb detectors no matter the brand from what i have read
This is why i am confused on why everyone wants to know the brand they all pretty much say to gb the same way if its a manual gb detector.
So here is the main point
While doing the process of ground balancing i do not get a tone either way up or down and no matter where the knob is set.
Why?
Well people say because your soil has no mineralization, no iron, no clay no salt and is “neutral” or “neutral soil”
Ok so my end question if my soil has no iron no clay no salt nothing that would make it to where you have to set your gb where do you leave the knob does it matter
If you leave it one way your detector is set more negative if the other way it is set more positive.
On a fixed gb detector the factory sets it “fixed” at a certain point to where in most cases it is set a little positive assuming they have minimization. Well if i have no mineralization is a “fixed” gb detector better or worse for my soil conditions

traveler777 answered your question above. In your situation turn ground balance off. He has much more experience than me.

 

[DigDog201]

traveler777 answered your question above. In your situation turn ground balance off. He has much more experience than me.

Yes i have no mineralization here unless i am on the beach in salt water compared to most who have at least some mineralization again i think this is part of the confusion but how do you turn off ground balance on a detector as he suggested?
It either is automatic, “fixed” at a certain point permanently, or manual with a adjustment knob or button.
Never seen or heard of any detector with a “off” setting or place where you can turn the knob to “off”
Am I doing something wrong and not know how to turn it off?

 

[crashbandicoot]

Yes i have no mineralization here unless i am on the beach in salt water compared to most who have at least some mineralization again i think this is part of the confusion but how do you turn off ground balance on a detector as he suggested?
It either is automatic, “fixed” at a certain point permanently, or manual with a adjustment knob or button.
Never seen or heard of any detector with a “off” setting or place where you can turn the knob to “off”
Am I doing something wrong and not know how to turn it off?

Maybe set it to zero. I still say it,s a solution looking for a problem.Try the forum on brands I told you about or call that tech rep.

 

[DigDog201]

Maybe set it to zero. I still say it,s a solution looking for a problem.Try the forum on brands I told you about or call that tech rep.

Maybe set it to zero. I still say it,s a solution looking for a problem.Try the forum on brands I told you about or call that tech rep.

yeah probably have to call the manufacturer if cant get an answer here. Not sure what detector you have but the gb control knobs only have minus to plus no off so you think that maybe you turn it all the way to minus is off but in actuality you are just setting tour ground balance very negative which can adversely affect your balance. Thats why i was asking if there is a way to actually turn it off. I will see if i get any responses

I

 

[crashbandicoot]

I

let us know what you hear. Much luck to you!

 

[DigDog201]

let us know what you hear. Much luck to you!

Ok here is an example of a response i got and makes sense not that yours doesn’t. No metal detector i had or seen has a zero setting or off button.
I guess thats what makes it confusing different detectors are set up different and i never experienced one with a off button for gb or a zero setting. If you can let me know which ones have those i will look into them but in mean time here is just one example of a response that i have to go by. Thanks

“Detectors with a preset ground balance are set to cope with most soil conditions you will come across and will give you good performance in most places.The difference in the way different manufacturers set up a fixed ground balance setting is negligable and will make no difference in reality when used in neutral soils.Buy a detector with a fixed and adjustable setting to cover all eventualities,that way if you ever do find your detector is falsing a lot you will have the option to calm it down with a manual gb setting.”

I am also looking into this possibility of a detector with both a fixed and manual gb setting.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Ok here is an example of a response i got and makes sense not that yours doesn’t. No metal detector i had or seen has a zero setting or off button.
I guess thats what makes it confusing different detectors are set up different and i never experienced one with a off button for gb or a zero setting. If you can let me know which ones have those i will look into them but in mean time here is just one example of a response that i have to go by. Thanks

“Detectors with a preset ground balance are set to cope with most soil conditions you will come across and will give you good performance in most places.The difference in the way different manufacturers set up a fixed ground balance setting is negligable and will make no difference in reality when used in neutral soils.Buy a detector with a fixed and adjustable setting to cover all eventualities,that way if you ever do find your detector is falsing a lot you will have the option to calm it down with a manual gb setting.”

I am also looking into this possibility of a detector with both a fixed and manual gb setting.

I don,t know Bud.I,m confused too. No BS. I,ve just never seen or heard of what you,re trying to achive in the words you set the problem out. Not dissing you,you deserve an answer. I never heard of a detector with both fixed and manual ground balance,one would seem to preclude the other.

 

[crashbandicoot]

Ok here is an example of a response i got and makes sense not that yours doesn’t. No metal detector i had or seen has a zero setting or off button.
I guess thats what makes it confusing different detectors are set up different and i never experienced one with a off button for gb or a zero setting. If you can let me know which ones have those i will look into them but in mean time here is just one example of a response that i have to go by. Thanks

“Detectors with a preset ground balance are set to cope with most soil conditions you will come across and will give you good performance in most places.The difference in the way different manufacturers set up a fixed ground balance setting is negligable and will make no difference in reality when used in neutral soils.Buy a detector with a fixed and adjustable setting to cover all eventualities,that way if you ever do find your detector is falsing a lot you will have the option to calm it down with a manual gb setting.”

I am also looking into this possibility of a detector with both a fixed and manual gb setting.

Seems like what he said about calming it down would be accomplished by turning down the sensitivity.

 

[DigDog201]

I don,t know Bud.I,m confused too. No BS. I,ve just never seen or heard of what you,re trying to achive in the words you set the problem out. Not dissing you,you deserve an answer. I never heard of a detector with both fixed and manual ground balance,one would seem to preclude the other.

Yeah you can see why i get confused and maybe im not explaining it right but just going by what others are saying
The way it reads like the detector has both fixed and manual gb maybe some do but I don’t know for sure but would think if its fixed you cant adjust it. I could be wrong

 

[Terry Soloman]

Fixed ground balance is found on entry level machines. It means the machine is balanced for minimum mineral soil content. Being able to adjust your gb is preferable because it opens up the machine's ability to mask out minerals that affect your depth. You never said what machine you are using. Are you trolling us? Tell us what you're using and we can help you.

 

[DigDog201]

Fixed ground balance is found on entry level machines. It means the machine is balanced for minimum mineral soil content. Being able to adjust your gb is preferable because it opens up the machine's ability to mask out minerals that affect your depth. You never said what machine you are using. Are you trolling us? Tell us what you're using and we can help you.

Sorry but no.
In my original post I explained how I started metal detecting over 15 years ago and had detectors such as sovereign gt, cibola , vaquero, ace 250, xterra 505, silver umax, and for the beach on of my favorites excalliber II. As you see i tend to favor minelabe and Tesoro but have tried several different ones.
I got out of the hobby for several reasons at the time but now looking to get back into it and noticed things have changed a bit with detectors some companies no longer around and technology has changed a bit as well. So looking at detectors in my current price range to start over since i had sold all mine almost 15 years ago.
I was always a little confused about ground balancing although I understand the concept.
I had auto, fixed and manual gb detectors. Auto and fixed you turn on and go but never sure how they actually did in my soil which leads to my questions.
Manual gb you have the ability to adjust it and basically they all adjust the same way pump coil up and down listen for tone if it increases on up or down determines if ypu are too positive or negative.
Well any manual gb detector i ever had i never got one sound, anything no matter where it was set to tell me how my detector was balanced and which way to adjust it.
Now i always thought it was a valid question to ask why my detectors behave like this, i cant get them to manually gb following the manufacture instructions.
I was told that means i have “neutral” soil or no mineralization.
Ok, well if that is the case where do i still set the gb knob? Positive? Negative? Because you cant shit it off or there is no zero setting.
So does it really matter and affecting the performance? Because i was always told if you have your gb set wrong it could affect your performance.
A fixed gb detector is factory set and you can’t change it and told usually doesn’t matter in low to no mineralization soil wont affect performance much ok then what about a manual gb detector where YOu have to set the knob its not set by the manufacture. Where do you set it if you cant get a tone because of no mineralization? Does it matter?
I can’t explain it more than this and don’t see how the brand of detector matters because no matter the brand all manual gb detector’s are set the same.
So no i am not trolling just trying to get an answer for those questions I don’t think are out of line unless you don’t care about the performance of your machine you just turn on and go no matter where the controls are set.
In that case they should just make a detector with just a power button.