Lost Adams Diggings

[mbb]

Just back from SW N.M. I love the country and it resurfaced my interest in the Lost Adams Diggings, enough so to get me onto this forum. You guys should know, did Mr. Fellman et al really find the diggings as seen on the T.V. show Unsolved Mysteries and stated on his H.E.A.T. website? No follow up info on the website since early 2005.
Also, have yet to read Purcell's book.
Should I join the hunt or look for something else "out there"?

 

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[Springfield]

A number of people have claimed to have found the LAD over the years, but none have presented any clear evidence. There are many sites in the southwest that can be twisted to fit the descriptions given for the location of the diggings, but the trouble is that there are so many versions of the story available to choose from that it's tough to decide which, if any, are reliable. I have twenty or thirty versions myself, some unpublished, and many of them are contradictory. Most of the 'discoverers' can list the landmarks they've found, but so far nobody has shown any gold in the quantities attributed to the LAD. Purcell's book is a great place to start - he's a very thorough and level-headed researcher. If you're going to look for this thing, I'd recommend searching somewhere between San Carlos reservation in Arizona and Pinos Altos, NM. Big area. Real big. You might not find the diggings, but you'll find some of the most awesome country available to put your boots in.

 

[mbb]

Thanks Springfield,
You hit right on the nerve. I have always wanted to visit the Gila River country to see what the draw was for the trappers outfitting out of Taos and Santa Fe. Drew a muzzleloading mule deer tag out of the Big Burro Mtns. Now I know what the lure is. SW N.M. is perhaps the only place that I've been in my sixty short years on this planet that I would trade for my beloved Montana. No need to explain. I'm sure you know what I mean but it still retains the "romance." I will buy Purcell's book and plan my next reason for heading to the Gila. Next to family there is nothing better than taking a pack and a rifle and going to see what is over the next hill. I soaked up every thi;ng around me on that hunt like a sponge!!! I have to wonder if anyone did find the Lost Adams diggings why would you tell anybody? I guess the same can be said for the Dutchman's gold too.
So many places, not enough time.

 

[Homesteader]

Sorry to have missed you; next time you're down around this area look me up and I'll show you around.

Silver City, NM

 

[Springfield]

Hey, Homesteader, got any good legends and places to search for them in the Silver City area?

 

[Homesteader]

Quite a few-which area are you interested in?

Ones that show decent potential:

-Lost gold coins in Little Burros
-Lost silver ledge in Little Burros
-Turquoise mine-big Burros
-lost gold off of Gold Gulch
-Native silver around Malone
-Large cache of gold-Knights Peak
-Buried stage loot - Gold Hill
-Pictographs-chloride flats
-Red hill possibly silver - Bullard Peak area
-Crosses and other Spanish markings-Pinos Altos area
-Map Cave- Past Hanover
-Gold diggings-Little dry creek
-Way too many to even know where to begin.

One that has always interested me are the pictographs right outside of town in the Chloride Flats area. Had a lady by the name of Gloria Farley who was working with Barry Fell (who did work on early presence of Vikings, et al in the States) look at them and she interpreted them as an ancient form of Humong/Vietnemese circa 1400's.

The late treasure hunter Gene Ballinger (Editor of the Hatch Courier and member of ill-fated Pine Cienega group hunting the Adams Diggings) swore that they were Spanish and tied in to the Peralta bunch that crossed over from Santa Rita, NM

I'm more inclined in that direction and I'll see if I can find a pic to post. Crosses, an egyption eye and some indian symbols mixed in.

Map cave, located on the road to Mimbres past Hanover, NM is very interesting. The whole floor of the cave is covered in Spanish and Indian markings that some say lead to Montezuma's treasure.

The whole area is literally a treasure hunters paradise filled with history. You can't exactly pick stuff right up off the ground (though you do get lucky), but with research and a little luck you can find things.

I've been semi-concentrating my efforts over the last few years on a large gold cache supposedly around the Knights Peak area (off of the Lordsburg Hwy coming up to town). Buried between 2 springs-wagon burned over the top of it-many of you probably know the story.

If you will be in this area, drop me a line and what type of history, mining, etc you are interested in and we'll head out to some good spots, time allowing.

 

[mbb]

Howdy Gentlemen,
Homesteader, thanks for the invitation. The next time I'm in the Gila country, I'd enjoy meeting and visiting with you. I have ordered Purcell's book and it should be here before Christmas. Since I apparently didn't draw a lot of comments on the LAD I figure it's a closely guarded secret, it's been found already, or people thinks it's a pipe dream. Sounds like you guys have plenty to chase around the Silver City area anyway. BTW when I was hunting in the Big Burros I wander down a sand draw a little south and east of the Blackhawk (?) mine. There was the foundation of an old cabin near a wind mill and water tank maybe a couple of miles south of the mine. Perhaps more interesting to me is that about 1/2 mile east of that old foundation I found a grave, one by itself. I sort of figured they were connected in some way, but it was by itself and a long way from the sand draw to bury somebody unless they died right there. Know anything about it? I noticed so much neat stuff in the Burros I can hardly way to continue my explorations. Reading about the McComas murder now. Anyway, keep in touch gentlemen.
Vaya,
mbb

 

[Springfield]

Quite a few-which area are you interested in?

Ones that show decent potential:

-Lost gold coins in Little Burros
-Lost silver ledge in Little Burros
-Turquoise mine-big Burros
-lost gold off of Gold Gulch
-Native silver around Malone
-Large cache of gold-Knights Peak
-Buried stage loot - Gold Hill
-Pictographs-chloride flats
-Red hill possibly silver - Bullard Peak area
-Crosses and other Spanish markings-Pinos Altos area
-Map Cave- Past Hanover
-Gold diggings-Little dry creek
-Way too many to even know where to begin.

One that has always interested me are the pictographs right outside of town in the Chloride Flats area. Had a lady by the name of Gloria Farley who was working with Barry Fell (who did work on early presence of Vikings, et al in the States) look at them and she interpreted them as an ancient form of Humong/Vietnemese circa 1400's.

The late treasure hunter Gene Ballinger (Editor of the Hatch Courier and member of ill-fated Pine Cienega group hunting the Adams Diggings) swore that they were Spanish and tied in to the Peralta bunch that crossed over from Santa Rita, NM

I'm more inclined in that direction and I'll see if I can find a pic to post. Crosses, an egyption eye and some indian symbols mixed in.

Map cave, located on the road to Mimbres past Hanover, NM is very interesting. The whole floor of the cave is covered in Spanish and Indian markings that some say lead to Montezuma's treasure.

The whole area is literally a treasure hunters paradise filled with history. You can't exactly pick stuff right up off the ground (though you do get lucky), but with research and a little luck you can find things.

I've been semi-concentrating my efforts over the last few years on a large gold cache supposedly around the Knights Peak area (off of the Lordsburg Hwy coming up to town). Buried between 2 springs-wagon burned over the top of it-many of you probably know the story.

If you will be in this area, drop me a line and what type of history, mining, etc you are interested in and we'll head out to some good spots, time allowing.

Interesting list - some of them are unknown to me, including your Knights Peak search. Good luck with it - I hope you have some good info to go on.

The items on your list that I'm interested in are the Map Cave/Twin Sisters/'Egyptian' Carvings group. I say 'group' because they're all related to eachother along with many other sites in the Silver City area that are part of a big story that has many aspects. Plot the location of the Egyptian carvings, the big cross on Twin Sisters and the Kneeling Nun on a map and you'll see what I mean.

Speaking of the 'Egyptian' carvings, check out http://ancientlosttreasures.yuku.com/forums/58 and you'll see that the the Silver City big story is part of a huge story throughout the American West.

I'm curious about your mention of 'Peralta' as related to Santa Rita. Care to share your info on this? I spoke with Gene Ballinger a few times before he passed on, and as interesting as his newsletter was, he withheld the best information. He was an interesting guy. I'd like to know the truth of the Pine Cienega event that landed him in prison, but I guess it's lost to history. I personally don't believe the LAD is located there, but I could be wrong. IMO, that TH club was a money making scam at the time, but again, I could be wrong.

 

[Homesteader]

Hey mbb;

I believe the flat where the foundation and windmill are located used to be an old goat ranch. I don't remember any grave around there though and would like to see it. As you head down blackhawk canyon from that flat about a quarter of a mile, there is a large indian pictograph of a fish with a bear on the inside on the right hand side of the canyon. Always found it kind of interesting.

The dump on the blackhawk mine and the alhambra on the other side of the canyon used to be great ones to take a metal detector to and get some pretty good silver specimens. In its heyday, the blackhawk was notorious for high-grading and I found a pretty good stash one time, but I'm sure there are probably lots of others around the area. When we were kids, me and a buddy pulled the old ore bucket that was sitting at the bottom out and used it a another prospect we had to the South of there.


Howdy Springfield; I'll check out your link in a minute and get back to ya on it.

I heard someplace that the Peralta's were originally involved with running the mule trains from the copper mine at santa rita down into mexico and that some of the natives told them about the superstitions. I'll see if I can dig up a source.

I was just a kid when the pine cienega group was operating, but my dad and a couple of other partners were involved at the very beginning until they decided to back out. They thought that the group was going on some pretty reliable info as far as the Adams Diggings were concerned, but were spending more time in side deals and trying to attract investors than was healthy. And the personality matches of all involved weren't very good. I really liked Mr. Ballinger and his wife-two of the finest people around and most of the people around these parts felt he got the short end of the stick in that deal.

 

[Homesteader]

Good grief, I checked out your link and I see what you mean. Many of the same exact glyphs and some interesting stuff. I did a quick plot and think I know what you are getting at. Ever know a guy by the name of Steve H. who used to work for the Forest Service and found some stuff around the twin sisters area? and another guy who translated some of the carvings at map cave and liked to climb down into deep caves?

 

[Springfield]

...I really liked Mr. Ballinger and his wife-two of the finest people around and most of the people around these parts felt he got the short end of the stick in that deal.

Yes, I attended the trial and felt that the rat from Chicago was the trigger man.

Good grief, I checked out your link and I see what you mean. Many of the same exact glyphs and some interesting stuff. I did a quick plot and think I know what you are getting at. Ever know a guy by the name of Steve H. who used to work for the Forest Service and found some stuff around the twin sisters area? and another guy who translated some of the carvings at map cave and liked to climb down into deep caves?

Yes, I met Steve around 1985 and had a stunning all-day conversation with him that was extremely enlightening. That was the day that I realized the size, extent and complexity of the unrecorded treasure-related events than transpired in SW New Mexico in days gone by. Later, Steve attracted quite a group of followers (one in particular) who later claimed to be able to interpret the carvings. This guy (and his associates) certainly have some good information and have located some very interesting things, but I'm not convinced that Steve revealed everything he knew to them before his death. The story I heard from his lips is not the same as the story his followers attribute to him.

Yes, they were active on the north Sister and down in the canyon below. Steve's followers were still active up there only a couple years ago. The shaft they collapsed back in the 90's is easy to find. Map Cave and Twin Sisters are prominent sites for sure, but there are others too. Many others.

As an aside, did you know that there's an old carving on Twin Sisters that says "ADAMS 1880"? I found it about 1980 and carved my name nearby then. The strange thing is that now I can't find them! I've looked twice and haven't relocated them. I need to keep looking - I'm wondering if someone removed them or if my memory of where they are is faulty.

 

[Homesteader]

Later, Steve attracted quite a group of followers (one in particular) who later claimed to be able to interpret the carvings. This guy (and his associates) certainly have some good information and have located some very interesting things, but I'm not convinced that Steve revealed everything he knew to them before his death. The story I heard from his lips is not the same as the story his followers attribute to him.

I do think that this guy has interpreted some of this stuff correctly, like the mountain outlines, etc, but I believe there is a whole lot more than meets the eye. I can usually pick out the main clues, but I seem to miss out on some of the finer details that people like Steve were able to pick up on.

Seems like you know this area well. If you happen to drop by the Silver City area, pm me and we can get together for coffee and to discuss theories, if you'd like.

 

[Springfield]

I do think that this guy has interpreted some of this stuff correctly, like the mountain outlines, etc, but I believe there is a whole lot more than meets the eye. I can usually pick out the main clues, but I seem to miss out on some of the finer details that people like Steve were able to pick up on.

Seems like you know this area well. If you happen to drop by the Silver City area, pm me and we can get together for coffee and to discuss theories, if you'd like.

I don't know if you're aware that Steve had a map to begin with. Yes, let's get together some time. I live in the area.

 

[Highmountain]

A number of people have claimed to have found the LAD over the years, but none have presented any clear evidence. There are many sites in the southwest that can be twisted to fit the descriptions given for the location of the diggings, but the trouble is that there are so many versions of the story available to choose from that it's tough to decide which, if any, are reliable. I have twenty or thirty versions myself, some unpublished, and many of them are contradictory. Most of the 'discoverers' can list the landmarks they've found, but so far nobody has shown any gold in the quantities attributed to the LAD. Purcell's book is a great place to start - he's a very thorough and level-headed researcher. If you're going to look for this thing, I'd recommend searching somewhere between San Carlos reservation in Arizona and Pinos Altos, NM. Big area. Real big. You might not find the diggings, but you'll find some of the most awesome country available to put your boots in.

Thanks for the kudos on the book. I'd say it offers a fairly good overview and background info. In that sense I'm unaware of any other out there that approaches it. On the other hand, I've learned an awfully lot since The Lost Adams Diggings - Myth, Mystery and Madness was published. With the help of a lot of geneologists I found the 'Mormon connection' was a lot stronger than seemed to be the case at the time of publication. For instance, Susan [Snively] Young, second wife to Brigham Young, mightn't have actually been kinfolk to Jacob Snively, but she came from an area too near his own in Pennsylvania to discount the possibility.

I also eventually confirmed a substantial lot more of the Nino Cochise/John Brewer story. Tracked down records of the offspring Brewer had in Mexico where and when. [Last one died in California in 1987, which was frustrating - I could have talked to him if I'd known a couple of decades earlier].

Also managed to track down a lot more about James Gray and his story, both to Dobie, and as it pertained to Nino Cochise. Gray definitely lied something awful to Dobie, but he, also, was definitely a Mormon, along with being a middling shady character in more ways than a person would care to count. Showed up in various records as an Army scout, though.

James Street's story, which I had some doubts about at the time of publication, is a lot nearer to being confirmed than I'd have expected. I confirmed through official records about his Commissary establishment at Ojo Caliente and have actually walked over the ruins of the place. They're exactly the same on the ground as the plans recorded in official records and reports. The 'back of the ledger' story is one I'm inclined to believe, along with the account of Nana pointing off and giving directions and distance [though I tend to believe the direction might have been slightly askew].

I believe the Adams is still out there, but a person buying the book would want to use it only to learn about the history of the Adams and the many places I didn't find it. I'd suggest nobody put much stock in any of the places I thought it might be. I don't know [at least I mightn't know] any more about the actual location than anyone else, except where it isn't.

Jack

 

[Springfield]

... With the help of a lot of geneologists I found the 'Mormon connection' was a lot stronger than seemed to be the case at the time of publication. ...
Jack

I suspect the truth of the events that spawned the 'Lost Adams Diggings' legend is different than what we've believed for the past 140 years - possibly radically different. I'm still riding the splintery fence between accepting that the LAD is a lost placer deposit or a entertaing the idea that the tale is a complete fabrication designed as a coded record to describe other activities in the area at the time. That's where the Mormon connection enters the picture, IMO, along with other unlikely players. There have been many who've claimed to have found the LAD, none of whom has provided anything close to convincing evidence. There have also been many apologists who have explained why the Canyon of Gold has not been relocated. Perhaps there is no Canyon of Gold, at least in the form we've been chasing.

 

[Highmountain]

... With the help of a lot of geneologists I found the 'Mormon connection' was a lot stronger than seemed to be the case at the time of publication. ...
Jack

I suspect the truth of the events that spawned the 'Lost Adams Diggings' legend is different than what we've believed for the past 140 years - possibly radically different. I'm still riding the splintery fence between accepting that the LAD is a lost placer deposit or a entertaing the idea that the tale is a complete fabrication designed as a coded record to describe other activities in the area at the time. That's where the Mormon connection enters the picture, IMO, along with other unlikely players. There have been many who've claimed to have found the LAD, none of whom has provided anything close to convincing evidence. There have also been many apologists who have explained why the Canyon of Gold has not been relocated. Perhaps there is no Canyon of Gold, at least in the form we've been chasing.

Thanks for the reply. I honestly don't know what to think about the 'Mormon connection' except that it exists, and that every rock a person turns over in the LAD stands a greater than even chance of having a Mormon under it.

I tend to agree the LAD is something quite different than we searchers relying on all that was said of it at the time, have believed. Lot's of things in the stories that seemed straight-forward now seem cryptic [though more accurate than they have any business being] and probably insightful.

I expect if the Adams is ever located it will be fairly obvious why it wasn't located previously [with the exception of those who found it and either couldn't find it again, or died in the process, or found it again, but didn't admit to it].

If John Brewer returned there I don't imagine his memories gave him enough peace to cause him to want to stay long.

But it does have a way of haunting the rest of us, not plagued with the memories he was carrying with him.

An enigma wrapped inside hmm something else enigmatic ad infinitum and wheels spinning inside other wheels [with apologies to Winston Churchill].

 

[BILL96]

Highmountain,
I have been a fan of your posts for quite awhile and really enjoyed your book on the LAD. Years ago I read the Nino Chochise book and at the time I did have a lot of skepticism and took it all with a grain of salt. I thought some of the details was just too detailed for a 100 yr old man. Some of the reviewers of the book thought it was mostly fiction. Until i had read your LAD book I didn't connect the names or some of the places that he refered to . Now I have started rereading the Nino Chochise book and am wondering if in fact it has more than a grain of truth. In my first reading I didn't notice that he mentions the ruins Tayopa at lease four times, that was interesting. I tried to a little more research on him but his early years are a little fuzzy. I got the opinion that you in fact do put a lot of stock in the book. If tou don't mind sharing ,what are your thoughts on the book as a whole.
Thanks,Bill

 

[Highmountain]

Highmountain,
I have been a fan of your posts for quite awhile and really enjoyed your book on the LAD. Years ago I read the Nino Chochise book and at the time I did have a lot of skepticism and took it all with a grain of salt. I thought some of the details was just too detailed for a 100 yr old man. Some of the reviewers of the book thought it was mostly fiction. Until i had read your LAD book I didn't connect the names or some of the places that he refered to . Now I have started rereading the Nino Chochise book and am wondering if in fact it has more than a grain of truth. In my first reading I didn't notice that he mentions the ruins Tayopa at lease four times, that was interesting. I tried to a little more research on him but his early years are a little fuzzy. I got the opinion that you in fact do put a lot of stock in the book. If tou don't mind sharing ,what are your thoughts on the book as a whole.
Thanks,Bill

Hi Bill: Thanks for the comments and observations. Glad you enjoyed TLAD - M, M &M. In all honesty, I believe the Nino Cochise tome might be the only story involving the legend and the players that's as nearly honest and complete as the teller could make it. It's worth keeping in mind that when Nino Cochise related his tale to E. Kenney Griffith [we don't know when that was, but we know the book was first published before the Dobie yarn and all the flap in the El Paso Herald about the Lost Adams Diggings] John Brewer, James Street, Ammon Tenney, and Gray were all unknowns insofar as being participants in LAD.

Brewer's presence in Mexico 1880ish to 1912 is established by unrelated documents such as birth records of his children born there. Probably nobody'd have ever known that if it hadn't been for Nino Cochise.

Similarly, the similarities between Nino's story concerning the Apache Kid conversations related by the Yaqui showed up in Dobie more-or-less intact related by James Gray, who made no mention of Mexico with Street, Tenney and Brewer, but instead claimed he'd been in China and whatnot soldier-of-fortuning.

I've made some other comments about the matter obliquely on the threads linked below:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,156992.0.html
http://snipurl.com/2a0ed [forum_treasurenet_com]

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,150284.0.html
http://snipurl.com/2a0eg [forum_treasurenet_com]

Thanks again for the comments. I always enjoy discussing the Adams with someone who isn't trying to tell me where it is.

Gracias,
Jack

 

[BLACKFOOT]

I posted a map in the New Mexico posts but it will not let me post it here said it is to big.
check it out

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI; Nino's book isn't available here, but what did he have to say about Tayopa?

Since I have found Tayopa and now own it, I can easily tell if he was telling the truth or was even in the ball park, let alone the area..

If he was telling the truth about Tayopa, then the book might be valuable in the search for the Adams mine.


Don Jose de La Mancha